Jump to content

Flirting?


67 replies to this topic

#41
Sailor Fisheye

  • Members
  • 7 posts
I've been worrying quite a bit about my own flirting ability. I mean, I've never really gotten a chance to practice it.

I used to operate under the assumption that the worst that could happen is I get a "No"--and even then, I tended to be a bit shy-ish, at least until I managed to get relaxed (which tends to be at inopportune times). But a friend pointed out that that isn't necessarily true--I can also come off as very socially inept. My own extrapolation is that I could also come off as anything from "mannish" to "exceedingly creepy."

What gets me is that being a transwoman (with passing issues at the moment, at that), I feel like I'm already kind of on thin ice and that if I can't flirt without offending or scaring off the women I'm trying to attract, that really doesn't help me acceptance-wise. Hence, further extrapolation of the above consequences of botched flirting also provides "rejection by the community, not simply the person being flirted with"--or so I fear.

I tend to be blunt, which has generally been my preferred means of avoiding misunderstandings. You know, don't beat around the bush, don't send any "hidden messages" that might get missed or misinterpreted, just say what needs to be said. However, my friend (granted, a straight girl in quasi-rural Wisconsin, and a collegiate type at that) said that with women, that kind of bluntness is Bad.

So I'm just wondering what I should glean from this. I mean, I imagine that the fact I'm currently in rural Wisconsin and neither the sexual orientations of the girls I'd tried to flirt with nor my own circumstances (my passing issues are of the nature that I'm hard to discern one way or the other, but definitely stand out) were laid out and fully known to all parties beforehand definitely played a role. Or it could just be that No, I shouldn't be blunt.

I did note the tactic that appears to work for djjadie's friend's ex, and that gives me a little hope.

I had my own, which might've been creepy more due to circumstance than innate property: "Want to corrupt an impressionable little schoolgirl? I'm so naive and vulnerable," with the latter sentence kind of tongue-in-cheek. I'm thinking a better adaptation for later use, if the premise isn't completely screwed, might be "Ever corrupted a schoolgirl?" (answer) "Want to?" Assuming the schoolgirl costume, naturally...

I also wonder about what I should do not simply in terms of lines used, but what should I do with my eyes? hands? positioning? The spectre of giving off the whole "That's a man" vibe is kind of hanging over me, and I really don't need to make a fool (or worse) of myself when I actually move to the cities and get out into the lesbian community.

Thoughts, suggestions, advice, playa's guides?

#42
Ramona

  • Posting Members (3 or more)
  • 40 posts
Sailor Fisheye, your questions really fascinate me. I hope you'll get a lot of feedback. I'll go ahead and offer my own, but with the proviso that I'm speaking only within what I've noticed or what I'd imagine, not even trying to suggest any sort of overall "truth." But I'd love to hear what others think, and I'd love to hear more about your own experiences, because they sound unique.

I guess for many women that put forth an aggressive flirt, the vast majority of the time, the worst that could happen is hearing, "No." Turned down on our offer is the worst we can expect, unless your target actually feels severely offended or even finds you scary or threatening in some important way. But how many women (even as women hitting on other women) really worry about that? How many of us need to worry? I think it's an interesting question.

I might very well come off as socially inept at times, but as a femme assigned-female-at-birth woman who is not that large and not at all tall and hardly physically strong and affects very little in the way of a "tough" attitude, I have a hard time imagining the woman that would actually feel threatened (instead of merely annoyed) by me, were I to flirt with her in a way she didn't totally appreciate. And as far as I know, no woman ever has felt in any way threatened by me. Again . . . as far as I KNOW. But I can easily imagine that women that have a somewhat different gender presentation, and/or are substantially larger, and/or are trans may experience other reactions . . . even upon behaving the exact same way I might behave but get a benign reaction. I do think it's probably the case that whether or not the same unwanted flirt is perceived as merely annoying or something worse may depend on the physicality of the person offering it, even among women. That might be a bit unfair, but merely noticing that disparity isn't going to make it go away.

So what's the critical difference between coming off as socially inept and something worse, something that would really offend or frighten someone?

I did wonder about what you said, quoted below:

Quote

I tend to be blunt, which has generally been my preferred means of avoiding misunderstandings. You know, don't beat around the bush, don't send any "hidden messages" that might get missed or misinterpreted, just say what needs to be said. However, my friend (granted, a straight girl in quasi-rural Wisconsin, and a collegiate type at that) said that with women, that kind of bluntness is Bad.

I think we/I/whoever at all would really need to hear more and more specifics about the "bluntness" you were told was "Bad" to imagine whether or not that might be the problem, or at least some part of the problem for some women. I mean . . . with regard to a new person with whom you've not yet established any relationship . . . there is BLUNT in the sense of being direct and straightforward about an attraction in a polite way . . . but still respectful and NOT rudely presumptuous about anything you think will happen if they don't necessarily share your attraction

. . . . . . . .

and THEN there is BLUNT in the sense of dialogue that would really only play in the script of a porn film, and no where else, realistically, with most people, you know?

I'm not sure how fine the line is between a sexy flirt and calling security and/or telling someone their personal introduction is more like unrealistic XXX dialogue, but it's in there somewhere. I'm certainly NOT trying to suggest you crossed any particular lines (I wouldn't know??), but if you want to use the forum to practice (and that would be interesting :) ), you might need to give us the actual lines.

I have no specific experience with rural Wisconsin, but I imagine it's probably pretty conservative, being a non-urban place in the middle and all. But, especially given your location, I also wondered a lot about this:

Quote

I had my own, which might've been creepy more due to circumstance than innate property: "Want to corrupt an impressionable little schoolgirl? I'm so naive and vulnerable," with the latter sentence kind of tongue-in-cheek. I'm thinking a better adaptation for later use, if the premise isn't completely screwed, might be "Ever corrupted a schoolgirl?" (answer) "Want to?" Assuming the schoolgirl costume, naturally...

I may entirely be missing your intent, but . . . I tend to think of anything excessively involving the word "schoolgirl" as somewhat fetishistic. Assuming of course, that we're not talking actual pedophilia here, which would be something else entirely, and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that that is NOT what you mean. While I know "schoolgirl" and/or school-type uniform and/or teacher-student fetishistic play type stuff is actually fairly common, especially in the BDSM community, I wouldn't imagine it's going to represent anything close to the majority of women you'll find in any particular setting, unless it's one geared specifically toward that. In a more general setting and with no specific reason to imagine the woman in question necessarily wants to "go there," I'd go ahead and proceed initially with a general assumption that she does NOT. I think an opening line, "Want to corrupt an impressionable little schoolgirl?" might freak more than a few somewhat randomly selected peeps. Also . . . even if they really ARE specifically into that, they might want a more general, overall, get-to-know-ya type conversation FIRST. You know, not EVERYONE, if you manage to hit a specific target, you might hit pay dirt immediately. But if we're playing the odds? An opening line involving the word "schoolgirl" is probably not your best bet.

Along those lines, I'm reminded of a dyke with whom I was acquainted a few years ago that wanted to show off her new clit hood piercing. She was a pretty cool chick, as was her new piercing. However, she did jump the gun a bit on offering to show it to new "friends." At certain sorts of play parties or more exclusive get-togethers, greeting someone she'd not yet met with the opening gambit, "Hi, I'm ___. Wanna see my new piercing?" - immediately followed by a dropping of her pants and thrusting it forward - was actually cool. At a more general community get-together or a more mixed gathering, not so very much. And even for the "not so very much" crowd, it wasn't even that they NEVER wanted to see it. It's just that a more general conversation involving more general interests would have paved the way a little better . . . first. She probably turned ON several people, but I dare say she offended more. I think she's ok with that. Who else is or is not ok with it is up to them to decide.

I guess in summary . . . shock and amazement as the first emotion upon meeting a new person works quite well for some, but not all. Again, not saying shocking WAS what you were up to, but I couldn't help but wonder given your post. Feel free to totally and completely correct me. :)

Body language advice, to play it safe? As far as your eyes? Mostly on hers. Hands? Not on her, unless invited. Positioning? If you want to play it safe, open body language but don't touch her initially, let her touch you first, then mimic what she does, let her lead, don't get more grabby than she did FIRST. That's all playing it safe. :)

Good luck and I for one hope you'll post more!

#43
Sailor Fisheye

  • Members
  • 7 posts
Ohhh, yeah. I worry the trans thing is going to be huge, huge, huge... And maybe I'm overestimating it. But the thing is, I know I don't have a free pass to acceptance as a woman. That's the thing that really worries me about how I flirt. I don't just need to think about whether it'll get me a "Yes" or a "No," but whether it will result in more significant forms of rejection--i.e., will badly botched flirting result in my being ostracized?

As for the bluntness, it was mostly just up and dropping the opening lines I posted--and I didn't really hide the fact that, yeah, I was lonely, and if anyone knew anybody who might be more interested, I'd love to meet'em. Of course, I might've just come off as more whiny than offensive, and the location/company probably did have a lot to do with it. Friend tried to be all reassuring that I was just coming off as inept, not totally screwed in the head, but I'm not sure how much that was true and how much it was her trying to soften the blow.

Quote

Body language advice, to play it safe? As far as your eyes? Mostly on hers. Hands? Not on her, unless invited. Positioning? If you want to play it safe, open body language but don't touch her initially, let her touch you first, then mimic what she does, let her lead, don't get more grabby than she did FIRST. That's all playing it safe. :)

Eyes, mostly on hers--gotcha. Hands to myself. Positioning... casual, do you mean? Could you elaborate on the positioning?

Also, for the hands, is it all right to invite touching? I.e., offering a hand? I mean, as far as I'm aware, that's acceptable even just in general day-to-day circumstances, but I don't know how it applies to flirting.

Quote

Good luck and I for one hope you'll post more!

I certainly hope to, too. :)

#44
phoenix99

  • Members
  • 65 posts

Quote

Ohhh, yeah. I worry the trans thing is going to be huge, huge, huge... And maybe I'm overestimating it.

I have the same problem. I am not out to many people as trans (though ftm not mtf) and worry that any relationships I get into, or try to get into, won't work because of who I want to be, and not who I am at the moment. Since at the moment I'm still female in all appearances.

Anyway, to comment on the original topic. I have been in denial for my whole life, therefore have always been on the receiving end of flirtation. No more though! I want to be able to get out there and flirt with people, and hit on them, but have no one to practice with, or anywhere to go. For many reasons I am not out where I live, and can't be. I also know of not one single person who is other than "straight." So, my issue is just getting out into a queer type community, but would like to have some allies before doing so. Anyone wanna help? In GA? lol

Anyway, for all you shy people, or people who don't know that someone is hitting on you. I think my philosophy is that if someone wants you to notice enough, then they will make sure that happens. Because, I think it's pretty obvious when someone isn't getting that you are into them (either that or it comes off as non-interest) I think there are just ways people act, and things people say that are different from what someone would say or do if they WEREN'T interested. But, maybe that's just me.
------------------------------------
But he that dares not grasp the thorn
Should never crave the rose.
- Anne Bronte, "The Narrow Way"

#45
ico.mpls

  • Members
  • 6 posts
I don't know how to flirt with another girl. I never know if they're straight or not, and I don't want to offend someone. I've had bad luck finding decent places to meet people lately. I met a lovely girl at the 90s last weekend, but she was here on vacation from California. Any suggestions?

#46
Absolut.vodkka

  • Members
  • 6 posts
i have the same problem ico. I live in a small town and i cant find anyplace to go meet people. i cant even find a bookstore that sells a decent lez novel without driving an hour and a half away. and flirting with a girl... hah, way too scared of offending someone too. we all need to wear neon signs that says straight or lesbian on our foreheads, it would make life simpler :mrgreen:

#47
ico.mpls

  • Members
  • 6 posts
Hehe, I'm sure there's a simpler way than that. I don't even live in a small town. I live in Minneapolis, which is a decent sized city in my opinion. Maybe I'm just not going to the right places.

#48
phoenix99

  • Members
  • 65 posts
I miss Minneapolis! Can't wait to go back.
------------------------------------
But he that dares not grasp the thorn
Should never crave the rose.
- Anne Bronte, "The Narrow Way"

#49
ico.mpls

  • Members
  • 6 posts
I love it here! Though I have been wanting to take a vacation for a while. A couple of friends and I have a list of all the places we intend to go to. I'm hoping we can cross at least one of them off the list next year. :)

Are you in Georgia? How is it there? I've never been, though I've heard that Savannah is amazing.


#50
Gale Lotzgesell

  • Members
  • 1 posts
You know, women do smile at each other, and if her eyes are following you, it might mean she likes your shoes.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users


  • Google