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Personality or Looks?


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#31
Lise441

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I can certainly relate to the womyn who consider themselves to be femme-dykes. I consider myself to be femme, but I do have my femme-dyke days/times. Like I love to play softball or some days I go to work in my sweat pants, a nice baby doll tee, and a baseball cap.

I just think that whatever you consider yourself to be just remember to be true to you and not change for anyone.
Sometimes you stand on the edge of a cliff and you jump. You jump because you're tired of being scared. Sometimes you jump just to feel the fall

#32
persephone

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as we're seeing, labels are a good starting point. but people are so much more complicated than the labels we have to describe them...

i went to a presentation at antioch college a few years ago that was part of a research project. the womyn showed dozens of slides of wimyn, and we were to rank each one on a butch-femme scale, like 1 to 10 or something like that (where one would be the most femme, 10 the most butch). we discovered just how subjective and relative these terms are...

i think butch and femme are terms that are applied in a certain context that have to do with degrees of masculinity and femininity. all people have masculine traits and all people have feminine traits. these characteristics may have to do with personality, they may have to do with manner, preferences, physical traits, cultural norms, etc...

i am femme because i know i have predominantly feminine characteristics, even though sometimes my hair is short, sometimes my legs are hairy, etc. to me, these things don't necessarily have to do with feminity. i once had a man tell me, 'for someone who tries so hard not to be, you are the most feminine person i know.' i also had a girlfriend once who wore lipstick, had long hair, shaved legs, etc. and she turned out to be WAY too butch for me.

i love femininity. that's why i prefer femmes. but i have also found myself intensely attracted to girls who have this really cute androgynous-punk sort of look. i think it's good to think about this stuff and not let society label us and all that jazz. i think it's also a good idea to let the thinking go from time to time and just sort of experience ourselves, people, life. the important things to know are what you are comfortable being and what kind of people you are comfortable being with, what attracts you, what you like. i'm starting to feel an edie brickel song coming on...

"shove me in the shallow water before i get to deep...
what i am is what i am, are you what you are or what?..."
"We are not separate from spirit, we are in it." --Plotinus

#33
PetticoatLace

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Hey all. I consider myself feminine by looks and personality, but I am not the type of girl to cry over breaking a nail or something, I am pretty down to earth. I find other femmes attractive, but not exclusively. I think having *some* labeling does help others understand a bit of what to expect, but going just by labeling itself and not getting to know a person for who they truely are does tend to miss something.

But anyways this being my first post- Hi all :D

~ PetticoatLace

#34
designgirl

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very interesting thread. i have come up with a term actually a friend of mine did when we were chatting about identity one day- "Tweener" and to be honest i kind of like it LOL. While I personally would never be caught in a dress, I still identify as femme, I guess in the "straight" world i could "pass", at least on most days, but at the same time i like wearing mens jeans- they actually accentuate my less than feminine physique and make me appear more femme. On a sexual level i "switch" but conduct myself in a sensual way that i perceive as more femme,(note that femme does not mean sub, I can be dominant when i want to and still be femme) my preferences lean toward the more femm looking women at least on initial attraction. We are after all part of the animal kingdom and physical appearance is what initially draws us to each other- it's just that it varies from person to person regardless of sexual orientation, what we are attracted to.

I don't mind labels, they do serve their purpose (for me the only purpose they serve is when i am not meeting someone in person, and is mostly and initial impression) a label is a way to break the ice when online, but again what one labels femme another might label butch so it is still a crap shoot LOL. If i am meeting someone in person the label doesn't really matter- I am attracted to what i am attracted to initially, which leads to getting to know the other person to see if it will go any further and down what path further means, be it friendship or more.
Love me for who I am, not who you want me to be

#35
LeeDogg20

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ok im new so take it easy!

ok so i think that butch and femme is just how u identify yourself also it makes it easyer to find out what type of lesbian you are into. my parents would call me a stone dyke, but myself i would call me a soft butch they just look at my looks and not at how my attitude is.... so it is a comination of both looks and attitude.... and that is my personal thougths on it

#36
phoenix99

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To me, you just are what you say you are. It's an internal label, if you choose to put one on yourself. You can say "i'm butch," or "i'm femme" or whatever, or none.

Of course, then what everyone else sees can be different. If you have short hair, wear masculine clothing etc, probably someone else will think you are butch. If you have long hair, wear make-up, wear skirts, someone will probably see you and think you are femme. That doesn't necessarily mean you are, though.

In general, I think people portray whatever label they put on themself. If they want to claim butch of femme they give out a vibe, and/or show people that's what they are in mannerisms, and clothing etc. It's not always the case, so of course I'm generalizing.

To reply to the original question. To be butch of femme is both an inner feeling (personality) as well as how you show yourself to the world (looks) but not everyone will see the same thing, to include yourself. It's a personal label, which may or may not be different than the one that others want to put on you.
------------------------------------
But he that dares not grasp the thorn
Should never crave the rose.
- Anne Bronte, "The Narrow Way"

#37
xenalvr

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To reply to the original question. To be butch of femme is both an inner feeling (personality) as well as how you show yourself to the world (looks) but not everyone will see the same thing, to include yourself. It's a personal label, which may or may not be different than the one that others want to put on you.

i agree. once i met this girl who insisted that i am butch despite me saying that i'm not. i was really quite flabberghasted because someone who didn't even know me was labelling me and telling me that she knew better than i did about who i was. i found that rather annoying. i think looks and personality, though linked on occasions, do not necessarily represent each other.

i guess labels are good for categorizing an individual but only to a certain extent because we are so much more than just one thing. i grew up in singapore and, from what i saw and experienced, labels played a huge part in the lesbian community there, to the point that when two individuals of the same 'category' (i.e. two butches) start dating, their attraction would be questioned. (things might have changed now, i'm not sure) i don't mind labels when they're used to describe, but i am against them when they become restrictive.

#38
PromiseTomorrow

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Yeah the topic of bitch and femme labels is one I've really been struggling with lately. I just moved to So. Cali so I've spent more and more time on the computer meeting women in my area. Unfortunately, most of them have asked "butch or femme?" A question I really don't have a concrete answer to. Although I do believe it is an internal image/feeling that surfaces through appearance if the woman does identify with the label, I also think there is a question of "dominant vs. submissive."

Maybe I'm just crazy... when I'm around femme lesbians, I find myself (regardless of what I'm wearing) acting the "butch/male" role but when I'm around butch or masculine women, I immediately dissolve into a feminine puddle. ?!?!?! It's rather irritating at times. I guess I'm still trying to figure out who -I- am as a person... and even, as a label.

What do you think?
www.myspace.com/theraginghopeful

"Are you a lesbian?" - a heckler
"Are you my alternative?" - Florynce Kennedy

If homosexuality is a disease, let's all call in queer to work: "Hello. Can't work today, still queer."
~Robin Tyler

#39
phoenix99

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To reply to Lindsay.

It seems that everyone wants to put everyone else into this box of either Butch or Femme, when it comes to being a lesbian. But the thing is, I think there are very few who actually fit neatly into either role. The only way I think it really works is if you pick one to embrace for yourself. And well, I think that more often than not people DON'T pick one or the other. You shouldn't have to. Who you are is who you are. And if a label doesn't fit, then it doesn't, labels are broad reaching things not meant to fit each and every person.

Sometimes you're butch, sometimes you're femme. Who cares? It's not like you can't be both, you know? And anyone saying you have to pick is really quite silly. When someone asks, just say who cares? Does it matter? And those that are like, I'm only attracted to femmes, or I'm only attracted to butches. That gets a little tricky too, because what if you decide you only want a butch and then you pass over anyone with long hair. Who's to say they aren't butch and you couldn't fall in love with them?

Anyway, to sum it all up, it's all quite silly to me. If you WANT a label, then good on you and go ahead and pick one. But, if you don't want one, then don't feel obligated to pick one. Though, that isn't to say someone else won't pick one for you. But, them's the breaks sometimes, and then you deal.


**Edited to fix a couple mistakes
------------------------------------
But he that dares not grasp the thorn
Should never crave the rose.
- Anne Bronte, "The Narrow Way"

#40
girllikesgirls

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Hi girls! I'm kinda new at all this... I'm just admitting to myself that I'm a lesbian! and I do have to say... Don't let others define who you are and what THEY think you are! all I can say is I'm attracted to girls femme butch, girlie, not girlie, tomboyish not tomboyish... Really labels to me aren't cool at all! because what if someone is calling you butch and you think that's what your supposed to be all the time and you continue to be that when you know you can be so much more... or vice versa! if you all understand what I mean! lol...anyway I consider MYSELF! all of the above at different times and different moods because sometimes there is times I shouldbe femme and I feel like wearing something nicer and going somewhere nice and wearing makeup and all that... but than there's times I want to just play basketball! or just lay around my house in sweats and eat icecream!! ya know as girls I think we all feel like each of those at one time or another! especaially when we finally find that right girl! we might want to dress up for them one time to blow them away! or do something romantic for them when we are not usually that way! yup we are girls and we do have moods lol!!!
love ya all
~CHRIS~ :wink:
"Life is good Eternal Life is better"





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