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people who don't like the way other people look in public


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#51
dirtyprettything

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i am a femme that is only attracted to femme, and i can see where ember and garbage are coming from, definitely....but the way a person expresses herself, is ultimately, her choice....maybe she didn't really feel like getting all dressed up that day, or maybe she works a nine to five job where she does get all prettied up for the day and when it comes to down time, she doesn't really care....yes, we all make a lot of assumptions based on a persons looks, and it has been proven that when you encounter someone, 60% of your perception of that person is based on their attire and hygeine, 25% is based on their physical body language, and only 15% is based on what they say.

i label myself as a femme b/c i like to dress girly and i don't wear clothing that makes me look "butch" in appearance, but i definitely don't dress up every day, and i never really put on any makeup unless i'm making an important appearance....but should i be labeled as someone that is unclean or unappreciative of myself? no, it keeps going further...I'm a full time student,, with a fulltime job, and at the end of the day, i'm so fucking tired that i don't really care what i look like and what others think about me....fuck them, i'm a great person, and if they don't want anything to do with me, then fine, their loss....

I have found that some people are content with themselves, wearing whatever whenever and wherever they go, and i just realize that this is what is wonderful about choice: i choose to go to school and work at the same time, i choose not to spend lots of money on cute clothes that i'll only wear once, i choose not to wear makeup b/c i break out more than i look pretty, i choose to eat a biggie fry with my hamburger and order diet coke, and i choose to not be biased b/c i have no reason to be....

I always find that, no matter where you go, no matter how close-knit you think a community is, you always have people being offensive and misrepresenting the ultimate truth: We are all lesbian/bi/curious women/womyn here, and we should be supporting one another, not deepening the lines of stereotypes....yes, i am femme, maybe you are butch, but we choose this because this is how we are most comfortable....i'm not trying to disprove anything anyone has said here, and i'm glad that we have a place to go to express our feelings, but at the end of the day, does it really matter what i'm wearing?

#52
semichrmedgrl03

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wow, reading this topic has been exhausting. some people just hear what they want to hear. i have to say to ember that i agree completely with you. technically, i'm from the south also, but i was never raised to look a certain way, i guess i just feel like i am feminine. as a kid i looked like a little boy. but it was just a phase. anyway, i don't have anything against women who are "butch." However, I'm just not attracted to people who don't give a sh*t how they look (different than being butch). It has nothing to do with me not liking them as people. I'm just biologically not attracted to them. I also don't understand why some women will call themselves "studs." That to me is a term that is sonomous with men. The question that I ask then is why the hell do these women want to be men? If I wanted to go out with a guy, I would go out with a guy. I don't mean all butch women. There are plenty of butch girls who have a sense of feminimity about them. I'm all about women not having to adhere to stereotypes, but DAMN. It's like some people are out to prove a point. oh yeah and this is what someone wrote

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In a sense, you're right. the way i see it, life is short, and there are lots of things i want to do. spending time on my appearance is just not as high a priority for me as the other things i want to do. *shrug* i guess my question is, why is it such a high priority for you? also, do you have the same standards for men about whether they style their hair, pick out flattering clothes, etc? (as with your question, mine are strictly interested. hope you're not offended).

YES I HOLD MEN TO THE SAME STANDARDS. I used to go out with guys and if a guy looked like he just rolled out of bed, I'm not going to be interested. And personally, body hair is disgusting to me. Guy or girl. Armpit hair, to me, is disgusting on either sex. Same thing with the rest of it. It's not that I'm shallow... I'm just not attracted to them!

And calling yourself a "dyke" only makes it okay for the redneck types to do it. And it's a hateful and offensive term and if someone referred to themselves as a dyke, i would walk away.

I know I'm going to get all kinds of crap for posting this, so here goes...

#53
heartmatters

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Why butch women dress and act the way they do is simple...it is what they ...and who they are. they didn't ask to be that way....and many don't choose to be..they have no choice. (I am aware that some DO chose to dress and act that way...but they never quite seem to make it. that's probably a good thing.)
All I know that I tried very hard, when I was young...to dress and act "femme"...it just didn't work for me. I just look like a very bad drag queen in dress and makeup....Not even that...I look like a straight man who made very little effort to look female. I learned to be who I am...and be happy with it. Fortunately for me, femme identified lesbians seem to be happy with it as well.
there is a study (I forget by whom...it's out there on the net) that calims all butch women are born with a longer ring finger than indes finger. the study says the occurence of butch women has something to do with invetro acidity...or some such stuff. I don't knw bout all that. I only know that it isn't necessary to understand the whole world..you'll go nuts tryin.
If it's any consolation to ya..I don't understand ANY women! LOL
I walk alone....wanna join me?

#54
heartmatters

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Now, my wondering is, why do some lesbians feel this is the way to look?

So...... your implying that lesbians must dress or look a diffrent way then straight women? The word lesbian is not all defining, being a lesbian is just one aspect of a whole life. There could be many possibilities as to why those two women looked the way they did that day. But because they did look "homely" doesnt mean that they are worth any less than you are. Besides, who the fuck cares what they were wearing or how there hair looked?

I had to learn the hard way that looks are worth there weight in gold, which basically means there not worth shit when you really get down to it. Skin deep is exactly that... skin deep. Ive been with some really attractive chicks and they all turned out to be insane and really ugly on the inside.
So dont be so quick to judge becuase you just might write someone off based on thier looks, that could have made you really really happy had you taken the time to get to know whats on the inside. That would really be a shame. Inner beauty has a way of turning into outer beauty.


"Besides, who the fuck cares what they were wearing or how there hair looked? "

Well, basically, at that time I cared. As a WOMAN myself, I felt that the neglect of their own appear and presence while out in public was slightly offensive and it caught me off guard. That was my point (maybe it is just a southern thing, who knows? We southern women tend to like to see beauty in a flower).

Oh, other stuff that I didn't mention is how they snapped and fought with one another like two cats tired of each other's company but too scared and dependent to let the other go. There! Happy now that I have "elaborated" on their INNER beauty? Such lovely creatures they were.

Anyhow, the point was about LOOKS, not their personality. Did anyone read my entry? Or maybe I should ask can anyone (other than Garbage) read?

....and the fun begins.

OMFG...LMAO..You really crack me up!
I walk alone....wanna join me?

#55
RomasWaide

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Now to start out, this is just my opinion and my own personal wonderings. I would ask that no one take offense to it, I simply do not understand the reason behind my following statement/inquiry. It is something that I have often thought on, long and hard, when I have encountered the following type of people. Maybe someone out there, even ones like the following, could help enlighten me. Enlightenment is my goal.

Okay, up front, no offense taken by you, Ember. The following reply is my personal opinion, not meant to offend anyone.

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Ok, here is my wondering . . . *SNIP* They were very homely looking, no makeup what so ever, and their clothing wasn't flattering their frames in the least. The taller one with the longer hair, her hair was so limp that wet noodles would have had more body and bounce. Now, my wondering is, why do some lesbians feel this is the way to look?

First, I'd like to point out that there are plenty of people I've seen in the South of, presumably, any identification who resemble this general description. Men and women, by whatever definitions are used for those terms, have been in my immediate vicinity who look this way. Why do they look this way? *shrug* Given that you didn't mention this particular couple as regulars to wherever you work, I would assume that they may not always look this way. Maybe they were in the middle of physical labour when you saw them; maybe they needed to stop in for something real quick and didn't care how people saw them for the five minutes they were out of the house. Who knows? I've been guilty of going up the street to the local gas station at three in the morning in my pee-jays for cigarettes without caring what anyone else thought. Or maybe they're of limited means and have to take what they can get. Having been homeless before, I can tell you that when you're worried about where you'll be sleeping and getting your next meal from, your appearance tends to occupy a lower priority. On a related note, it also falls into the "beggars can't be choosers" category if you're limited to shopping at the GoodWill.

If I'm reading you right, though, you're not talking about the isolated incident of not giving a crap -- you're talking about not seeming to give a crap about appearance in general. I'm taking for granted that you're also talking about people who aren't in a truly bad place with very limited means.

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Now, don't get me wrong. I don't wear makeup everyday and I don't dress to the 9's everyday, but if I look in the mirror and saw in myself what I saw in them, I would have tried something. It could have, and must likely would have, been a minimal attempt at polishing my appearance, but I would have attempted it. *SNIP* It is almost like, and forgive my ignorance on the topic, they "refuse" to attempt to polish their appearance.

Well, maybe some people who look this way are refusing to polish their appearance. Maybe they have a low self-esteem or negative body image and think that efforts to polish up will be futile (personal experience on this one -- vicious cycle, that). Maybe they've looked a certain way for so long that trying anything different is outside their comfort zone. Or maybe they are completely emotionally healthy and genuinely don't think they need any enhancement.

I don't think there's any cut-and-dry answer to your query, Ember. There are just too many variable among individuals to go "*thwap* Here's your answer". :)

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I guess my wondering is why some lesbians have this tendency whenit comes to their personal appearance and if it is really a helper or a henderance to their finding someone to be with. I am not really referring to the "butch" look per-say. I have seen several butch-typed women that still seemed like they looked in the mirror that morning to make sure their appearance was one that would please another's eye.

As with the reasons for appearance, whether said appearance helps or hinders would be up to each individual, regardless of sexual orientation. *shrug*

I understand you're not talking about butches in general. Again, if I'm reading you correctly, you're talking about people who seem to give no thought to their appearance whatsoever. As I said earlier, there are any number of reasons for this, and they're all based on the individual.

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If you think you have any thoughts, comments, explanations, or whatever, please feel free to enlighten me. I have thought on it many times in my life and I have never really seemed to obtain an answer from my own musings.

I hope my post has been of some help to you, however vague that help might have been. :)
~Jenn

Early to rise and early to bed
Keeps people healthy but socially dead!
(attrib. anonymous)

#56
dragonboi

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Hi amber...obviously this is a very sensitive subject...lmao...and in my opinion is very important...it seems that there are some among the lesbian community who are very offended by any lesbian labeling themselves as "butch".....and it is I am sure because of a seemingly parallel with hetero men that "butch " women SEEM to identify with....but as with anything it takes a closer look...and it deserves a closer look....there are some women who do feel much more masculine...I definantly do...I am not someone who feels comfortable with makeup and heels....lmao in fact all my friends would laugh at the thought of this....I think u would agree that there are women who are more masculine than some women...this does not make them men..nor does it mean they WANT to BE MEN...and simply because u are not attracted obviously to women who identify as butch...doesnt mean they are not lesbian...nor does it mean they dont deserve respect as being apart of the community....I, speaking for myself....love women...not men...I, speaking as a butch...have no desire to be a man,...I , speaking for myself, do express myself much more comfortably in a masculine aggressive way....it is natural...I could not ever be femme in the traditional sense at all.....

the scenario that u described....I think was simply about two ppl who u found wholely unattractive and repulsive in all respects....this is not the whole of the butch-femme world.....so please do be careful with the generalizations and judgements here....I respect ur honesty...I respect ur question and I respect the fact that the butch lesbian is not what u are attracted to or invision as apart of ur lesbian experience....pls take the time to see the ppl....and see that basically when it all gets down to it....we are all human....no matter what our sexual preference or gender may be..


#57
soulrebel

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but these women appalled me physically (reminder, just a personal opinion/attraction). They were very homely looking, no makeup what so ever, and their clothing wasn't flattering their frames in the least. The taller one with the longer hair, her hair was so limp that wet noodles would have had more body and bounce. Now, my wondering is, why do some lesbians feel this is the way to look?

I have read almost all this thread...man. It really seems its hard for you even begin to really understand where Zami is coming from. Most likely because you two are total opposites. I think Zami's words are great! It was really nice to hear a woman speaking up like that...I don't hear it often at all. And I really dig what she had to say. To EmberPhase...you know some people just don't give a shit about keeping up with the damn beauty myth. I cannot believe you used the word "appalled" I could almost see you recoiling in disgust or something. You have to understand not all women dig the whole thing about wearing make up and heels and Dooney and Burke purses and things of that sort. And just because some women don't follow those 'rules' that have been applied in society does not make them any less of women. Maybe some women don't want to make themselves up to be 'beautiful' for everyone. Maybe they are cool with themselves as they are. You know honestly...I have to say, you sound like a stereotypical man. Expecting women to fit into this image or that. Put down the InStyle and Cosmo and Vogue...and realize some women don't need all that to feel like a woman. I am not dressing for society I am dressing for me.

#58
Ladyfire

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....this is not the whole of the butch-femme world.....so please do be careful with the generalizations and judgements here....I respect ur honesty...I respect ur question and I respect the fact that the butch lesbian is not what u are attracted to or invision as apart of ur lesbian experience....pls take the time to see the ppl....and see that basically when it all gets down to it....we are all human....no matter what our sexual preference or gender may be..[/i][/b][/quote]

So well expressed...I am a truly femme woman....I am old school...I have only been with handsome woman that identify as Butch....The chemistry is breath-taking, enticing, exciting and me...

If we all thought the same how boring life would be...The Butch/femme
dynamic is where I fit into the Rainbow World...Always have & forever will..I use to get offended when bio-guys would look at me, ask for my number, etc....Now, I just think eat your heart out darlin..~gigglin~

When other femme woman look at me, that sensual way, I get uncomfortable, too....My femme self was made for hys butch touch...Wherever hy may be....I know me & what I need, even though it may be different strokes for another.

SO it is as whatever blows your dress up or pulls your zipper down...I am proud of my femininty...I wear dresses, do my hair, make-up & nails..I am usually mistaken for a straight ~lady~...Even with my lil rainbow earrring..Now, I just smile inside & think if you only knew....

I am happy with my desire for the Butch/femme dance that I desire to fullfill me....This is who I am....

Sweetly....~lady~
~Mmmmmm~ Are you butch from head to toe?

#59
Ladyfire

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He must be a gentleman in all due respect....In language, dress & the way he responds to me...It must be with honor, valor and most off all manners.
Must I say the true Daddy energy, will win his lil princesses heart..His integrity will shine through in all ways that he interacts with me...

Daddy do you want to watch some Football? ~gigglin~

~Lady~
~Mmmmmm~ Are you butch from head to toe?

#60
hot69btch

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Dear Ladyfire, If I May Have Your Attention for a Moment Please Mam? You are so Right in the fact that u Must and Shall Always be Treated with Honesty, Respect, and DIGNITY.. A True Southern Gentalman always tries never to Mistreat his LADY. Please forgive my Manners. I can tell by your Distinct Attitude .. That you only Expect to be Treated like the Total WOMAN.........[LADY] that u are.. You Enthrall me with your Deciveness of the choice of your words and actions, in taking my breath away with your undoubtable beauty, you also, have now enthralled me with making DAMN Sure I stay on my toes...........IF it were raining right now ,I assure you my Coat would be at your feet, MY Lady.!!!!!!!!
Not Wanting To Be Rude to You , As You Are To ME ..You ENTICE Me, I Shall Honor You, MY INTENTIONS NOW AND AT ANY POINT IN TIME ARE AT UTMOST AS WELL LAID OUT MS. SCARLET THAT THEY POSSIBLY COULD BE, ONLY WITH BEST INTENTIONS AND YOUR TOTAL SATISFACTION INVOLVED...... TOUCHDOWN 24-7 [would u like to play touch, or tackle????????????????// :twisted: :)





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