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Inter-racial Relationships


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#11
domino

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Hello,ladies...Well, I for one only date outside my physical race.However, I have dated inside my own race and one of the biggest turnoffs in white lesbian circles is the prevalence of racism. Many of the white women I would be around at parties,groups,etc. would assume(ass-u-me)that because of my color I would get in on black jokes,or other bullshit conversations.Needless to say I am assed-out so to speak.I am living with racism,gender prejudgements,etc.,daily.strong enough for a man but made for a woman.I am a black identified white woman in a man's world,who thinks all my sistahs are beautifull no matter what anyone tells them.My one year old daughter is biracial,and she will have a lot to face growing up....ONE HUMAN RACE...domino

#12
Guest_Anonymous_*

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I am a black identified white woman

What the fuck? Does this mean, that you are currently "passing", because if it does, than that sucks ass...big time. Can you please explain this statement...I'm a bit confused....don't mind me, I'm just a slow bird. :roll:

#13
domino

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No,I am not passing as anything but myself.I dont care to let others prejudgements affect my self esteem...I am whatever you want to believe I am. I am a biological white female who identifies as a black human being because of being raised by a black step mother and a white father...ONE HUMAN RACE

#14
zami

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Quote

No,I am not passing as anything but myself.I dont care to let others prejudgements affect my self esteem...I am whatever you want to believe I am. I am a biological white female who identifies as a black human being because of being raised by a black step mother and a white father...ONE HUMAN RACE

Hmm...I don't even know if I want to go here....but I guess I will.

So why do you believe you are "black"? What is black to you anyhow? (it obviously goes beyond skin colour). Is it an historical connection (i.e. you identify with your stepmother's family?) Is it because of alienation from your white family (if at all?) How do you explain, therefore, your white skinned privilege, which allows you to move in spaces much differently than say, myself or Zimbabwe (although I am assuming about you Zimbabwe - so please tell me off if needed). I mean, do you understand why folks with a history of oppression and experience linked to slavery, colonizaiton, anti-black racism, profiling, rape, murder etc. would kinda get upset about a person who has privilege such as yourself "claiming" an identity - well, coopting one? I mean, what is 'black identified' anyway? There is no universal 'blackness' - and to assume so is really problematic, and well, racist.

As much as we want to state that there is "ONE HUMAN RACE" we need to take into account that there are folks who are very differently placed within this so called homogenous group, due to race, class, gender, age, ability, gender identity, sexual orientation...and many other social relations that shape the way we experience the world.

And this means that my black skin instantly makes people assume shit about me that won't be assumed about you, domino, due to your white skin. The end.
"If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive" ~ Audre Lorde

#15
Ramona

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Hi everyone. I don't know that I've considered some of the issues being expressed in this forum enough to have an opinion that many would consider intelligent, but I do know I find them compelling. After reading the above, I'm torn between feeling that anyone and everyone has a right to decide to whom they're attracted and act accordingly, even if some of the ways they feel or what they pursue makes others feel icky and well . . . just plain feeling icky. I know from personal experience via Lesbotronic and other personal ad type sites that there are a lot of white women who only want to date white women, black women who only want to date other black women or other women of color, AND black women who only want to date white women. I even read a profile of a woman who identified as black, but only wanted to date white women or hispanic women, but hispanic women only if they were NOT Mexican. And I was just left thinking . . . "Wow, what is HER deal???"

Personally I've dated across the spectrum, and while there were certainly issues that required discussing, feelings that required processing, nothing has ever happened to me that would make me say I'd never date a person based on their ethnicity. And the idea that someone would rule me in or rule me out as a candidate for dating based on my race (I'm white, if that's important to whoever is reading this right now) does creep me out. If they found my skintone or cultural heritage attractive as part of a broad spectrum of things they liked about me, that would be fine, desirable even. But for someone to say they either would or would not date me just based on that . . . ick. And not just ick to the "black-identified" chick who wouldn't want to date me, I myself wouldn't want to date a white woman who said she only wanted to date other white women, even though I'd be "ruled in" on that one.

I know some women of color want to date other women of color because they feel they could better understand or relate to their history. And some Latina women I've met (though I'm sure this goes for other ethnicities as well) are looking to ultimately partner up with someone from a similar heritage who can help them pass on something specific about that to kids they want to raise, like speaking Spanish. But like zami said, there's still no "universal" there. The assumption that someone will understand or relate to you well just based on their appearance, even if your appearance is quite similar, will often prove inaccurate. I'd also wonder about the "black-identified" or "blackophile" thing . . . still don't understand how that came about, but if it's about an attitude of tolerance . . . if you're not black but you've still managed to develop an attitude that's acceptable to yourself, isn't it at least possible that some other white women would have as well?

This reminds me of an article I read a few years ago . . . I wish I could remember where (probably Bitch or Ms. magazine, but I can't recall for sure) or the name of the author so I could direct any interested parties more specifically. But she was an Asian woman complaining about the phenomenon of white men in America who only want to date and/or have a serious fetish for Asian women, of which (according to her) there are apparently quite a few. It was a great article in that she was pointing out something that was socially unfortunate in a serious way, but it was also funny. She said she wished those white men would hurry up and learn already that the Asian women they meet in America:

- are usually going to be too heavy to safely walk on your spine
- do not necessarily have small feet
- unless they've received special training of some sort, they're not necessarily any better at giving you a massage than any other woman
- same goes for getting stains out of your laundry
- they do actually have opinions, many of which they will express, even if they're different than yours

. . . and several other things I can no longer remember. Basically she was saying that a lot of these men weren't trying to get to know the Asian women they met as actual individuals, but were trying to access a cultural stereotype, and one based on some unfortunate racist and misogynist stuff at that.

If what you're looking for is a personality characteristic, I think you'd be better off stating that more specifically, rather than assuming it onto a really large demographic group and requesting them instead. Same even goes for specific physical characteristics . . . even though this is more specifically what's being accessed, there's still huge variability in physical appearance even if you've specified an ethnicity.

But do feel free to let me know what I'm not understanding here, I'm sure there's something! :)

#16
domino

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Ok,ladies...Sigh..For me, I recieved enough home training to know everyone isn't going to like me,understand me or whatever.But thats not the point,here.I could as easily tell you that if you were here,you would recieve specific job preferance,being waited on first in restaurants,bars etc. where most of the clintelle is non-white.I dont understand why we cant have some unity within our community as lesbians,period.Yes my mother was a mixed race woman.My stepmother legally adopted me.Does that make me black? I dont know.But my preferance has always been black women.I was raised as if I was a black child.My cousins,brother etc. are non-white. I am simply more culturally black orientated. Some of my experiences with white women have been pleasant,but most told me just what others on this thread say;you arent that so why act likeit;there is a reason black people look at you funny,etc. Fck em! Do you all tell transgendered people the same thing?...I digress..I really hate closed minded folks,those who are unaccepting and intolerant will never get it...But I dont live for them..I live for my biracial one year old who loves me no matter how she or I came into this world..For my black gay step-brother who doesnt give a damn who I sleep with.All I am saying is we need to love ourselves enough that it doesnt matter what happens;what anyone says. "We must say it all,and as clearly as we can.For,even before we are dead,they are busy trying to bury us. Were we black? Were we women? Were we gay? Were we the wrong shade of black?Were we yellow? Did we, God forbid, love the wrong person,country or politics?.....Alice Walker

#17
Ramona

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Quote

I could as easily tell you that if you were here,you would recieve specific job preferance,being waited on first in restaurants,bars etc. where most of the clintelle is non-white.

You know, I've spent some time in New Orleans . . . not a lot, but one 5-day "weekend" for sure, and I don't doubt that. (I'm assuming you're responding to me, Ramona, and/or other white women reading this.) I think that's seriously sad, but I don't doubt it.

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I dont understand why we cant have some unity within our community as lesbians,period.

I agree with you there too, some degree of unity, especially within a group that's already seriously marginalized and (speaking about the US) increasingly threatened due to the horrors of our current presidential administration . . . unity would be nice. But I don't know that unity is accomplished via your separation of self from other lesbians, or identifying as something else. The white lesbians you spoke of that were racist and assumed you were as well . . . did you confront them on that? I would have, or at least I would have made my own (perhaps feeble or not entirely well-educated) attempt. But I woulda said SOMETHING.

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I was raised as if I was a black child.

I really don't even know what that means. Black people do face struggles that whites don't face in the US, that's no joke, and I'm not trying to minimize that. But what does that mean, "raised as if" if you don't physically appear to be such?

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My cousins,brother etc. are non-white. I am simply more culturally black orientated. Some of my experiences with white women have been pleasant,but most told me just what others on this thread say;you arent that so why act likeit;there is a reason black people look at you funny,etc. Fck em! Do you all tell transgendered people the same thing?...

Black people look at you funny? Or were you referring to me? And do I (if that's who you're talking to??) "tell all transgendered people the same thing?" What same thing would that be? I ask for clarification, but actually no, I don't "tell all transgendered people" anything at all. Since I'm not transgendered myself, if a transgendered person chose to tell me anything at all I'd just listen.

#18
Guest_Anonymous_*

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I am simply more culturally black orientated.

DOMINO,
I remember that I had a roommate, her name was Lisa and she was a white girl...from somewhere in Pennsylvania. She moved to Brooklyn because you know, she was rich and she wanted that experience to say that...she actually lugged her laundry down the block to wash it. Lisa would always complain that..the members of the black community always gave her a "hard time"...they were never "nice to her" :cry: ...then one day I got sick of it and said to her....she was the one who brought her ass to live in the ghetto because it was much more cheaper than lower Manhattan. You see Domino, white people have the option of moving around freely, and picking places where they want to live...they pick where they want to be. Black people have no choice, but to go to Manhattan and get a job. They have to go into the white community and watch babies that will grow up to call them nigger...WE HAVE TO SURVIVE...Domino...you don't have to be where you are....you choose to be there, and now you are dealing with black people and their being defensive towards you. I do the same thing...I know in Brooklyn, when I see a white person moving in a particular neighborhood....it's really scary because, that means that the people who are living there sometimes more than 10 years will have to move out because, the rent will go up, and landlords will start to kick "the niggers" out in order to make room for white skin. Black and brown skin decreases property value..it's called Regentification...or Urban Renewal...read up on it...

For the record in reference to zami...I am a black African woman living in this place...I agree with Zami because she goes through what I go through.. Domino...the reason why I disagree with you so strongly is because it seems as if you live in a la-la world. It is wonderful, that you think we should all just kick off our sandals, and run in the meadow, holding hands...but there are no meadows where I am from...just broken glass, and the New York Pigs Department...(NYPD)

The comment that I quoted from you above is very important to me, because I just love how you (a white woman) can step in and out of someone's culture. I am happy however, that you quoted Alice Walker...she is wonderful. However I DO NOT agree, in with her feelings that she has towards the amerikan world. That is another topic altogether, and since I studied her years ago...I'll get back to you on it

The fact that you are a white woman shows me, or explains to me rather...the comments you make..."one human race", "one people" and other lovely things...Domino you do this because the people belonging to your race are NOT being harassed. They are NOT victims of racism, and they hardly ever go though bouts with the police.

SO what, you moved to New Orleans, and the people there are giving you a hard time because you're white. Please Domino...when you get the time....read up about the history in New Orleans...maybe that will clear things up....I mean no harm to you...I just want for things to be clear... I will NOT stand by and allow you to claim something that is NOT yours...I have fought to long to preserve it for myself...because it was taken from me...and given to you, so that you can claim to be a fucking black woman...when your not...I will NOT stand for that...it is to important to me...it is a game to you....Domino if you LOVE as much as you say you do....LOVE yourself Embrace your whiteness. There is NOTHING wrong with that...SAnkofa

#19
Guest_Anonymous_*

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Domino I have to defend my race, because it is all I have...you have choosen to embrace 2 races...you might think its cute...but I don't and to be honest it hurts me...but what do you care? You are a white woman...and I am a black woman....150 years ago..I would have been working for you somewhere...

#20
zami

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ZimBaBwe - WORD.
"If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive" ~ Audre Lorde





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