LizzieLou

The Time Has Come

32 posts in this topic

I want my Gay Wedding. I want some presents, dammit! And some tax breaks!

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post

I'm all for lesbians and gay men getting married.... I just can't understand WHY a lesbian would WANT to marry a gay man!!!

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post

Good one! I heard someone straight say there is no reason why gays shouldn't be married. They said we should be just as miserable as everyone else. I agree, let us suffer too!

What do you guys think of the comparison of gays wanting civil rights to the black civil rights issues of the past? Is there a parallel? Is there something better to compare it to?

Does it make a difference to you if we are granted civil unions but not marriages? And do you think it's going to be any easier for a gay couple to adopt a child if we are granted unions of some sort?

Filly

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post

You have raised some very interesting questions. I have no answers. All I can say, for tonight, is that you've got me thinking. My initial response (off the top of my head): 1. Minority groups are minority groups. Homosexuals are a minority group. Afro-Americans are a minority group. Minority groups are often oppressed. There are many minority groups that are being oppressed but not all who are being denied their civil rights. Utilizing the Afro-American Civil Rights movement as parallel to Gay Rights is about as good as it gets. 2. I still am not certain as to what the differences are between marriage and civil unions. If one has the same civil rights through a civil union as they would through a legal marriage, a civil union would be enough for me. 3. Will civil unions lead to homosexuals being able to adopt? My thought: Yes, but we have a long way to go to get there. We have to be able to have a civil union first and who knows how long that might take? Maybe not even in my lifetime! Most thought-provoking. Would be interested in hearing others' thoughts. 

 

Share this post


Link to post

Did anyone happen to read the New York Times Magazine last Sunday? It would seem that Bush's vocal support for a constitutional ban on gay marriage will finally cost him some votes with the Log Cabin Republicans.

Share this post


Link to post

This past monday it was taken to legislation here in Ky, the turn out was awesome..there where queers everywhere.. just the opportunity to vote and poll on it of course, should be happening in November sometime...lets hope everyone in eastern Kentucky is too busy courting their cousins to take notice..

Share this post


Link to post

(post title being completely sarcastic, of course)

I hesitate to post links on sites run by folks I don't know since I don't know how long they'll stay active, but I couldn't help myself with this one because it SO perfectly summarizes my feelings on the subject and is amusing to boot:

http://www.12reasons.com

And since that page requests that those linking give proper credit, the page seems to be courtesy of "GatorGSA." I do not know what GatorGSA is. But I'd like to give them credit as requested. 

Share this post


Link to post

taxation without representation was the basis for America's war for independence. lesbians and gays work hard and pay taxes, and shouldn't be denied the benefits of those taxes. i say, take the religious connotation out of government sanctioned relationships and quit calling them marriages. call government recognized unions civil unions. let the various religious denominations worry about who they marry.

unfortunately, i think TPTB (the powers that be) in the White House...and i'm not really sure who that is (apparently neither are they)...believe America didn't exist until the fundamentalist religions of The Great Awakening, and later, came into being. these people have the worst grasp of what America's about of any administration in our history.

hmmmm, except that they knew to court Gays in the 2000 election to get their votes, and then dump them.

Share this post


Link to post

Obviously gay parents will raise gay children because straight parents only raise straight children.

AAAAHHH HAHAHHAHAHA!

Share this post


Link to post

A great website that is full of articulate, logical and heartfelt reasons why gay marriage should be legalized, everyone should check out this link

www.indegayforum.com

Share this post


Link to post

I love the sarcasm!! Those are great.

I'm also reading the Independent Gay Forum. Carrie posted the site link for that. Very good stuff.

I'm a bit confused on what civil unions means exactly. Does that just mean those who want to get married can't get married through the courts or . . . O shit. I don't know what I'm trying to ask! I just don't know what civil unions means exactly. 

Share this post


Link to post

i say, take the religious connotation out of government sanctioned relationships and quit calling them marriages. call government recognized unions civil unions. let the various religious denominations worry about who they marry. .

I LOVE presenting just this option to as many people I can, Modron. All this debate has led me to the conclusion that there just shouldn't be "marriage" for anyone. This religious based union-making shouldn't be the law of the land. Everything that the current marriage "institution" bestows automatically can be taken care of legally already: next of kin, durable power of attorney, legal guardianship of children (not addressing the adoption issue specifically here). However, I am all about freedom of religion too, so if you want to have a marriage, go right ahead. But that in no way should give the "special priviledges" it currently does.

And I realize I am bucking thousands of years of tradition here, but can't we evolve, ever?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post

Now that bush is elected for a second term, same sex marriage is definitely on its way to getting banned. Anyone have a clue what we can do to stop it,,if anything at all?

Share this post


Link to post

I am probably one of the only lesbians here who will admit that I actually favor civil union over legal marriage. I'm not saying that others should not get married if they want to, but for me marriage in the sense of heterosexual marriage is nothing but a huge prom and the entitlement to share debt for the rest of your lives to me. Does anyone else feel the same or agree with some parts?

Share this post


Link to post

I agree with some parts. But I also believe that people have their own ideas of a "marriage/wedding" It doesnt have to be the typical hetero wedding. It's whatever you want it to be. You create it. It doesn't have to be a traditional wedding.

Share this post


Link to post

Well, I've just now put off my intellectual sackcloth and ashes over Bush's re-election enough to be able to think again. I'm all for gay and lesbian marriages but, unless they're recognized by the government, they don't really up the stakes in the relationship which is, I think, what's missing from our culture. I see a lot of people practicing sexual nomadism--I'm not talking about sleeping with anything that moves, I'm talking about serial monogamy in most cases. I've thought a lot about what causes that, and it seems to me that it's a lack of something that grounds the two lives together--shared property, a child, a legal bond, whatever. I can profess my undying love and commitment to a woman today, in front of all our friends and the members of our families who aren't scandalized, and move out tomorrow, taking the money we had in our joint account with me. She might get it back, but she's going to have to go through all kinds of hell to do it. Don't get me wrong, I believe in falling in love and staying together through thick and thin, and I believe we are at least as capable of that as the heterosexual community. I think our community is at a disadvantage in doing it unless the government officially recognizes our unions, marriages, whatever you want to call them. The current system encourages a somewhat lackadaisical attitude toward serious relationships. I don't think it matters so much what you call them, and I don't really care if there's a religious aspect to the recognition; the legal recognition of unions between same-sex partners is really the bottom line.

Share this post


Link to post

Hi,

well, since I am married to a man, I think I will add a twist to this...

I concur with bluelegume 100%. We didn't want to get married, were happy with the arrangements as they were, partly because we feel that marriage (institution of) is a bourgeousie arrangement, and partly because of the hassles over debt, property -- because we are a blended family, the whole marital property thing can get a tad tricky, so we had to pay extra money for post-nupt, etc... --

but we finally were in a situation with insurance, and the kids...and I found that common law marriages don't provide the protection for women (not that traditional marriages provide that much either) in case of death of spouse, etc...but the insurance company made you go through all these hoops and red tape if common law, and basically it boiled down to unless you're married, the children couldn't get coverage (step children especially)... so,

yes, I am adament that marriage should be a right for everyone (because of the legal recognition, etc and because its a right granted to heterosexuals so do deny it to homosexuals is discriminatory).

And especially because of the legal ramifications, such as power of attorney, living wills, death of spouse/partner {really tricky if children are involved, as to who gets custody, etc), inheritance (take for example, lets say a bi woman gets divorced, and then is in a lesbian union, long term committment, and then, lets say her partner dies...relatives then would have the right to protest, like inheritance and if there are no civil /legal protections, what then???

So, its more than just the union of two people, when you are young you really don't think about these things but when you are faced with them, its a whole other ballgame.

And, besides that, the laws against marriages between homosexuals, are really, an extension of patriarchial laws that discriminate against All women, when you think about it...because marriage is set up really to benefit men...now, you may think, how is this connected...well, see, how to explain...well its like this, if government can dictate to us who we marry (control over sexuality) then, really, government is also dictating to us what our roles in life should be, etc etc...and for women, we know that means, traditional patriarchial gender roles...

so yea, I do believe in gay marriages and I do fight for them. And if you think that government doesn't want to control our sexuality, then I would suggest, take a look at the Alabama law that was passed that stores that sell sex toys, can be fined mega amounts of dollars...basically trying to outlaw sex toys.

Whats next, making masturbation illegal? I really wouldn't put it past some of the right wing extremists out there to propose such as stupid measure...it really does boil down to controlling a persons (particularly women) sexuality... and as far as I am concerned, no one has that right to control our/your sexuality (excluding incest of course, child rape, etc...) but you --

therefore, to the US government, hands off our bodies and hands off our relationships, who we choose to sleep with, love, marry is Our business, our choice, not the governments choice.

In solidarity, love and rage,

Kahloeyes

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post

I think Marriage should be available to anyone who wants to enter into the vows and pledges of it.

I don't think it should be a heterosexual thing only (Where it excludes gays, lesbians, and some bisexuals)

Nor do I think it should be a "between two only" union, because that is still VERY excluding to some bisexuals who don't understand why they also can't marry according to their needs.

Why not allow everyone the freedom to marry according to their own nature and heart? It doesn't hurt heterosexual unions. and it doesn't hurt unions of just two.

Why not let it be open for all?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post

For the first time ever, a gay couple in the Canadian military was married. It happened right here in my little town of Greenwood, NS. The ceremony was presided over by a military minister who serves several faiths.

The same-sex marriage bill should receive Royal Ascent by the end of next week. It will be law in Canada in no time.

Share this post


Link to post

I think marriage is supposed to be about two peope who love each other making a hopefully permanant commitment to their partnership in a socially recognized way; not about the genders of the people involved.

I also think it's supposed to be about affirming a spiritual union between two people. For those who aren't reliigious civil union may be appropriate, but for those who are- being confined to that because of some sort of gender based social taboo is insulting, like saying the divine is homophobic. As a Pagan I'm also real bent to say that not only should marriage not be limited to certain gender choices, but that it shouldn't be something some reliigions are given the right to do while others are not.

I also think that there's absolutly nothing wrong with the idea of gay people raising kids- I think having loving parents is more important than the gender of the parents, and that kids will wind up with male and female role models in their lives regardless of what the sexes of the people raising them are. The argument that gay people will most likely raise gay kids is absolute hogwash, at least given that almost all the lesbians and gay men I know were raised by streight parents. And, why should it matter? Let the kid grow up and figure out their own personal leanings, but regardless, let the kid grow up in a happy and healthy enviornment.

I also think it's obnoxious that homosexual people in long term relationships are denied many of the social benifits that streight people have, as well as the respect that comes along with such a partnership.

Oh yeah, and Bush is an ASS.

Just my soap box.  Sorry.

~Nikki

Share this post


Link to post

Perhaps we have not taken the correct legal aproach to the problem. We need to start a grass roots Lesbian/Gay Marriage petition campaign in every community where at least one of us resides. Get as many lesbian, gay, and hetero signatures on the petitions as possible in a one-year period. Then send copies to our all of our state and federal representatives and candidates. Try for a referendum.

Right now, because the gay/lesbian/transexual community is not very well organized at all, the "Moral Minority" has all the high cards and is playing them. We need to organize and loby. We need one ORGANIZED, LOUD voice in Washington and in our States to OUT-SHOUT THE "MORAL MINORITY".

Let's take a page from the 1960's Afro-American book: Organize, activate, loby, go for the referendums, and not stop until it's done 

Share this post


Link to post

I have to say, living in Newfoundland has it's downfalls, but laws against gay marriage is not one of them! A girl I know just got married a month ago to her wife and most of the political hot shots of the province were there to celebrate it with her. 

I revel in the thought that someday, when I have met the girl of my dreams, I will have no problems when it comes to spending the rest of my life with her. 

Marriage is a right that I think everyone should have access to! I hate the whole thought process that marriage was created for a man and a woman to procreate and live out their "life's duties!" This is bull shit when in this day and age, there are so many gay couples adopting or having children. There is NO proof that a child from two gay parents is anything other than more openminded! And the last time I checked, that was a good thing!

Share this post


Link to post

Obviously gay parents will raise gay children because straight parents only raise straight children.

AAAAHHH HAHAHHAHAHA!

Oh Goddess that's hilarious!!! My parents are the most conservative, southern baptist, homophobic people I've ever met, and look at me!

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post

Obviously gay parents will raise gay children because straight parents only raise straight children.

AAAAHHH HAHAHHAHAHA!

LOL

Concise, well put, excellent, irrefutable point. Case closed!

Share this post


Link to post

Massachuttes is rated the number one "Gay" friendly place to live. Particularly due to it's passage of Gay marriage. I looked up on Google to places for Gays to live. There were two television shows that brings gay marriiage home for me. When Ellen came out and the entire show was based on what was it like to be gay, about so lootly hysterical . But, the message she was sending was so true on how homosexuals are viewed living their "Gay Lifestyle".

The other I cannot remember the title. It had four clips starting from the 50's I think, moved to real time where Sharon Stone was trying to get pregnant, I think Ellen was in that one to. The first story sums up homosexuals marrrying. Two very elderly women who had obviously been together for some time start at a mive, just sitting close and enjoying the night out. They walk outside and almost hold hands forgetting the time they lived in and how gays were not accepted. One afternoon the one who had the house in her name died of a sudden heart attack. The other was devastated. The women who died had a son she never saw but remembered hearing his mom had a "roommate" comes with his wife andkid, and U'haul. Just starts talking about selling the house, auctionning off her things. The kid grabs a porcelain figure that brings concern from the woman, probably a souvenoir trip theey took.

The guys says she can have the porcelain object and gives her so many days to move out and find her own place. She lives, cutaway to a one room effficiency that was completely bare.

Share this post


Link to post

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now