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Signs, Signs Everywhere Signs...

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So I am identified as "Bisexual". Those who know me, understand that I dislike labels but, we humans just "need" to catergorise, so here I am "Bisexual".

A couple of people responded by asking me "So, what you're not fussy huh?" And in truth, no I'm not. I love women and men. Do I have a preference? Sexually I prefer women.

Once I had a close friend over for dinner. We got into the discussion of homosexuality. (She is not aware of my preferences btw). And suddenly she came out with "...but those bisexuals, I hate them". Admittedly I was taken aback just a little, a moment of pause struck me like a rabbit in headlights. Here is a woman that I have known for about 4 years, we met at my old job. We have shared stories of our lives and spent a great deal of time just laughing and talking like women do. On several occasions she has said "I love you, you mean the world to me"...and in that one brief conversation, she said she hated me. Once the initial shock was over I asked why. She answered "Because they can't make up their mind, jumping from men to women, it's disgusting. But gay's I'm fine with". I asked "How does it effect you?"...she answered "It doesn't, I just hate them cause it's wrong". I knew she was always a little naive about some stuff, but to hear such ignorant words come from her mouth shocked me.

Well, of course I didn't want to ruin her evening so I wasn't about to "out" myself to her. She met me while I was with my male partner and I have met a woman since, but it didn't work between us, so I just don't talk about it unless I'm talking to very close family or friends.

I know myself as a woman who has not limited myself to one gender. I know me as I Am. I could choose not to like women in an intimate way, but why deny that part of me? Why should anyone deny themselves who they are?

If I meet a wonderful man who I can love, so be it. And the same if I meet a wonderful woman. It's not about "jumping from one to the other", it's not about "not making up my mind". It just Is. A partner need not feel threatened that I will suddenly decide I want the opposite gender instead, I don't work that way. That doesn't serve me well. Who I am with, I am with and I don't stray.

So, to cut a long story short. I'm labelled "Bi" and if others do not like it, it's their choice, they labelled me that, so they can live with it.

I am Nicole. That's all I know.

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Good for you Nicole! I am shocked that a straight woman would say what much of the gay community feels. It's bad enough that bisexuals are often left out, if not outright bashed by gays, but to hear that someone straight thinks it's "wrong" - whoa!

I went to a meeting for lesbians and bis the other day and this woman actually felt the need to apologize for being married. What she was apologizing for was, in fact, her bisexuality. What the heck for?! It's so sad that bis are often afraid to come out because of the reactions they might get.

I don't consider myself bi - I call myself queer (or pomosexual if you like). I've dated men for most of my life despite preferring women. What I now know (after years of battling with myself) is that I do find men attractive, I'm just not attracted TO them. With VERY few exceptions. I sure am attracted to women though. I've been afraid to admit to lesbians that I've been with men, simply because that might exclude me from their club. Sometimes it's like a little girls' club in elementary school. One of these things just doesn't belong.

We need labels. (Otherwise we might buy OJ instead of milk). But seriously, we couldn't live life without ANY forms of identity. A name is a label. "This is my sister" is a means of identification. But when it gets to the point that we pigeon hole a group just because of one aspect of who they are, that's when things have gotten out of hand. It's like saying "All sisters are wrong" or "milk is bad" (unless you're lactose intolerant, then I might understand :wink: ).

That's Dandy :roll:

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Hi dandy :)

It's a strange world we live in huh? I know that there are some Lesbians out there that disagree with Bisexuality. They fight, march the streets to be accepted, yet not all accept others. It's so silly.

I dated a lesbian for a short period. She often got upset when I discussed my ex, who was male. She did not like the thought of me having sex with a man. We only dated for about a month, but remain friends. At Christmas, she got pregnant. Well, I questioned her and she said "but I was drunk". She who gave me a hard time, who acted so true to her sexuality, jumped the fence in a drunkard state. But that's okay because she was drunk. Puh-leaseeee, spare me the bullshit.

The bottom line is, we do not have to pretend to be anyone to impress ourselves or anyone else for that matter. We are, simply who we are. I don't lie about it, I don't bag anyone, I accept people for Who they are, not What they are. I know that labels are necessary in our society because God knows it would be too much to just "Be". The only reason we look for indentification is so we can file them. It's not necessary.

We think we will sleep better at night if we have everything and everyone filed as they "should" be. Anything and everything is possible. Why limit oneself to one thing? God gave us Free Will without conditions. But somewhere along the line we created limitations and conditions to ourselves, to others.

I really should have been born in the 50's I think. I would have gone to Woodstock and run free with the hippies. Hahahahahaha!

I'm going to hug a tree.....

speak soon dandy

Love Nicole

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Nicole, you have a very mature out look. You do too Dandy. Awesome. And I gave a little gasp when you said, Dandy, that you are attracted to men, but you aren't attracted TO men. LOL *sigh* i sort of feel that way some times. I'm attracted to men, but . . . I don't foresee myself as being with a man. I don't know why that is . . . and I've only been with one woman . . . well, we only dated then I broke up with her because i was confused . . . I've never been with either a man or a woman "in that way." LMAO Anyway . . . I like the way the two of you think.

I also wanted to ask, you Nicole, if you ever have come out to your friend who was bashing bisexuals. She sort of needs to be set straight in that regard.

Yours,

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At Christmas, she got pregnant.

That's nuts! There's nothing wrong with being who you are, "faults" and all (if liking a man is a fault?!?!). But denial? Hmm...

And I gave a little gasp when you said, Dandy, that you are attracted to men, but you aren't attracted TO men.

Actually, what I said was that I find men attractive but I'm not attracted TO them. In other words, I can look at a guy and have an opinion "He's cute", "Nice butt", but there are very, very few men that physically attract me to them. Simply put - I don't want to be physical with men.

My best friend is exactly the same way, but with women. She is straight but can easily say she finds a woman attractive. Doesn't mean she wants to sleep with her.

I hope you find someone that floats your boat and you have explosive, mindblowing sex. HAHA!

Oh, and Raven, welcome to the forum. (You'll have to earn the "goddess" LOL).

That's Dandy :roll:

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I didn't mean to sound like I was bashing you or I was shocked that you think men are cute but would prefer women . . . I was trying to say that I feel the same as you. I find men attractive but I get really turned on looking at women. :oops::D LOL I'm sorry if I made my email confusing. I think I was thinking faster than I could type last night. :D

Aaaan, I think I've earned 'Goddess' but I guess I'll have to prove that here to the forum. Thank you for the welcome too. :D

Yours,

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Pagan, Dandy :wink: How's it going?

Yeah, denial is not good. Understandable for a short amount of time, but soon enough you realise it does not serve you well to choose denial of yourself. There's only so much your soul can take before it pushes you out there.

I haven't set her straight Pagan. It's a hard one. I don't see her often enough really but we call and email. My feeling now is that if we slowly drift apart, so be it. I told her I did not like her comments, but did not "out" myself to her. One day I'll just show up at a gathering with a girl on my arm LMAO! I'll then see if I still get the big hug and kiss as normal.

Nic xx

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I didn't mean to sound like I was bashing you or I was shocked that you think men are cute but would prefer women . . .

Nope, not at all. I wasn't upset, I just thought you might not have understood what I meant, so I was clarifying. Glad we're both on the same page... women are scrumptious :wink:

Looking forward to discovering why you're a goddess. LOL

That's Dandy :roll:

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And I'm looking forward to showing you why I'm a goddess. hee hee hee

I'm glad that no offense was taken.

How are things anyway. I"m sorry it has taken me so long to reply back here. It seems a lot of you ladies are on holiday or something.

I was trying to post a picture for my forum picture but it was too big. I need to get something that I saved on my parents pc. It was a picture of me that I cropped and saved. *sigh* However, we are not on speaking terms so I'm going to have to keep you all in suspense of what I look like. LOL

Yours

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I figured I'd chime in, being bisexual and all.

Despite the fact we are 'connected' with both the homosexual and hetrosexual communities (that is, we like what 'you' like and we like what 'they' like), bisexuals do tend to get a bit of a bad wrap, especially young bisexuals like myself.

I'm 19. According to most people I've spoken to, I'll "get over it". This comes from both straight people and lesbians; they are of the opinion that one day I'll settle on men or women, that bisexuality is a period of transition between hetrosexuality and homosexual or, worse, that it is simply a curious phase.

Know the worst thing? I came out when I was 16 - told my friends, my family. Maybe it was a little premature (most of my female friends confided that they were having the same feelings as me, so I guess being sexually confused isn't a rare thing) but in the end, it was signed, sealed and delivered, and I knew I was really bisexual, not just bi-curious ... which, might I add, people have a nasty habit of confusing!

Anyway, tangent aside, thus began the period of time that I refer to as 'the Tug'. I had my lesbian and gay friends trying to tempt me to homosexuality with cookies, and my straight friends trying to lead me away from my comfortable post on the fence with bright coloured jelly beans. Oh, I was content where I way, but eventually I began to doubt myself all over again. Remember going through that stage when you ask yourself "Am I attracted to women?" Just when I had realised that the answer was "yes" I found myself asking if I was attracted to men and women, or just men, or just women, because I was of the opinion that I HAD to choose to be taken seriously!

And now nobody really knows what I am, except for me. I feel like I'm back in the damn closet again, too afraid to admit that I like men and women equally. I make excuses ("I'm bisexual, but I'm mostly attracted to men/women") because I'm tried to people telling me to choose.

We need labels.

True enough, Dandy Lionness. People have a nasty habit of rejecting the unfamiliar ... and, unfortunately, anything that is different. Using your breakfast beverage example (I feel silly typing that, haha), just because you're used to full cream milk doesn't mean you shouldn't give goats milk a chance. You may have heard that it isn't real milk, but it is.

I'm sexuality equivalent of goats milk, and I'm not half bad.

And also, try goats milk, for real. It's really, really good.

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Melissah I feel exactly the same... I'm attracted equally to men and women. Recently a friend told me she though bisexual people were "just greedy" and because I'm currently in a long term relationship with a guy, she couldn't believe that I could see myself in one with a woman as a possibility. Crazy. I don't even know what to say to someone who doesn't "believe in bisexuals" All that aside, and in her defense, my bud is just completely naive, not mean-spirited.

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i used to help facilitate a queer/lgbt womyn's group and i would always be shocked by some of the incredibly biphobic things that other lesbians would say. every year there would inevitably be a meeting with bisexuality as its topic and every year a third of the womyn would leave that meeting and never come back. it was really upsetting.

do you find that lesbians treat you differently when you're in a long-term (relatively) monogamous womon-womon relationship? a friend of mine is a butch bisexual dyke (a "byke") in an ltr with another butch and another friend of mine (a butch lesbian) said some biphobic things around her, it not even crossing her mind that this person was bi.

i think it's tragic that people attempt to "own" lesbianism and create arbitrary boundaries to exclude other people's experiences.

ancil

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What IS the matter with people???

Many straight people will accept that we can be born with a variety of different abnormalities, traits, etc., but can not fathom that homosexuality is something we can be born with, as well. And homosexuals will insist they are born that way and that straights should get over it. Yet neither group seems to think bisexuals fall into the same category. What's the deal????

And as far as not being able to make up your mind and/or jump from males to females--get over that, too. What's the difference between a lesbian who jumps from woman to woman to woman, or a bisexual who jumps from man to woman to......?

I think most bi people are like anyone else: looking for a long-term comitment from another PERSON. Lesbians want that from another woman, straights from someone of the opposite sex. If your partner cheats on you, does it really matter what the sex of that other person is? Cheating is cheating, regardless of sex. It shows a lack of character on the part of the cheater.

I am not bi, but have an odd history myself. I was straight for 33 yrs. I was attracted to men, but not really to women. I had crushes and fell in love with a variety of men. I even got married. When I was 33 (almost to the very day; happy birthday, right? lol), I developed a mad crush on a woman professor I had. I assumed that, after 33 yrs of liking men, this was just a speed bump in the road of life. I figured I would go back to men after my crush was over. Well, it's been almost 7 yrs and I have no interest in men anymore. :P A light bulb went on and something said: "This is the way you were always meant to be." My feelings for women are more intense, the sex more comfortable (not that I didn't like it before; it just seems more natural), and it just seems to be right. I am sure I will not be reversing polarities again. I don't even want to. Women even seem to be easier to deal with. Besides, even though I don't really get into this label thing, I really am too butch for most men (hey, if you were a guy, would you date a girl who gets called "sir" sometimes? lol. If they look at my chest, they wouldn't call my that).

I don't have problems with straight, homo, bi, or whatever. As long as you're having sex with a consenting adult ( I guess fruits and vegetables don't have to consent, lol :lol: ).

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melissah- not going to bother quoting, because almost *everything* you said i can relate to... i'm also 19, bi, and came out as being bi when i was 16 (actually, pansexual would be more representative, but there's too much confusion attached to the word). i hate that some people can't differentiate between being bi and bi-curious... there's nothing to be "curious" about when it comes to my sexuality, i at least know myself this well by now. i've been with girls, i've been with guys... i simply am attracted to both (and everything in between). i'm not looking for a threesome to make my boyfriend happy, i'm not "trying" to be more straight or more gay, or anything else bi-critics have to say about it. this does create quite a stir in both circles... some of my gay friends don't accept it, and some of my straight friends accept it for the wrong reasons (i.e guys thinking it's "hot"). but i've learned it doesn't really matter all that much if they "accept" it, it's my love life anyway and i'm sick of trying to justify it. anyway, everything i feel about bisexuality has pretty much been said by other people in this topic already, so i'll leave it at that... i don't really know where i was going, anyway.

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Although I don't have anything really deep to say, I can say that I cam out as bi to my mother and a few weeks later, whe made mention of how gross two women together is to her. I felt really hurt. But I try to remember that she is more old school and not a very open minded person. I keep my sexual preferences to myself and my husband. (Thank god he understands and enjoys it) It makes having conversations difficult at work since I work in a factory of closed minded men and women in a small farming community. I can't be myself without fear of reprocussions. :cry:

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Once I had a close friend over for dinner. We got into the discussion of homosexuality. (She is not aware of my preferences btw). And suddenly she came out with "...but those bisexuals, I hate them". Admittedly I was taken aback just a little, a moment of pause struck me like a rabbit in headlights. Here is a woman that I have known for about 4 years, we met at my old job. We have shared stories of our lives and spent a great deal of time just laughing and talking like women do. On several occasions she has said "I love you, you mean the world to me"...and in that one brief conversation, she said she hated me. Once the initial shock was over I asked why. She answered "Because they can't make up their mind, jumping from men to women, it's disgusting. But gay's I'm fine with". I asked "How does it effect you?"...she answered "It doesn't, I just hate them cause it's wrong". I knew she was always a little naive about some stuff, but to hear such ignorant words come from her mouth shocked me.

Nicole, I understand your frustration, but I want to shed some light on the issue of bisexuals having a bad rep in the gay/lesbian community. A lot of lesbians have told me that they opt out of dating or getting involved with bisexual women because too many times there has been some sort of clich, for example:

1. A bisexual woman who is in a relationship with a man wants to bring another woman into the relationship for a threesome with the husband/boyfriend.

2. A bisexual woman in a relationship with a man wants to have a fling with another woman behind his back and say it's not cheating because "sex with another woman is not real sex."

I'm sure you've heard these and many other issues that have risen out of this. I, personally, have no issues with bisexual women if they're a TRUE BISEXUAL. There's a huge difference between being bisexual and calling yourself one just to sound sexy to a guy or to justify why you're a slut. I define a true bisexual as someone who can be in a relationship with a man and just be with him and no one else, and when she is in a relationship with a woman she is with her and no one else. Being bisexual is not about bed hoping as so many woman who claim they're bisexual have turned it into.

I'm sure you've heard about the STD risk. To be honest the fake bisexuals out there put everyone at risk, anyone does when they bed hop as much as they do. But if you're true to yourself and true to the life, if you know and believe that making love to a woman while you're in a relationship with a man is cheating (no matter what language or culture you come from), and that sex with a woman is real sex (I still don't know who cam up with that crazy idea) then you're okay. Sweetie, you're what I call a rare jewel in the bisexual world full of shit. Don't worry your efforts to love will not go unoticed and someday you will find a woman who will realize that you're not like all the others, you really do want love.

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Lise441

I have to disagree with most of your post.

A "true bisexual" according to my definition is someone who is equally attracted to men and women, and has sexual relations with both men and women. Saying that someone is only a "true bisexual" if she or he is monogamous is just your own judgement on their lifestyle, and many women-lesbians, bisexuals or heterosexuals, are not in monogamous relationships nor to they feel they need to be. While I believe sex is best with someone you love, that doesn't mean sex just for the fun of it is wrong. What an imposition of puritanical morals.

I can't believe that you would blame a high STD risk on bisexual women. Thats equivalent to a straight person saying that AIDS is only spread by gay people. Complete nonsense. And you didn't address the people who identify as polyamorous.

Your use of the word "slut" saddens me. Obviously you feel a need to box bisexual women up to fit your own ideas of morality and misconceptions about sexual health.

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Carrie, you need to 1. calm down, and 2. go back and read what was written because you obviously got your panties all in a knot for no reason at all...then again maybe what was posted (something I never said was my view or opinion, but something that has been commonly said) offended you because it shed some light on your personal life or whatever. Oh and before you say that there isn't a high risk of STD's among bisexual men/women I suggest you do some research (try the CDC, you do remember what that stands for, don't you?) before you say it's "nonsense." And news flash miss I'm-a-bisexual-and-I-know-everything, even the poster said her close friend made a comment alluding to what I posted. I highly suggest you calm down, untangle your panties, and from now on READ the entire post and try to comprehend.

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I would urge anyone reading/replying to this post to make sure you're familiar with our Lesbotronic Community Guidelines:

http://www.lesbotronic.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=445

. . . before things get out of hand, ok? Disagreement/debate is fine. Name calling and severe rudeness not. There's some verging here. Let's take a step back, take a deep breath, and continue with dignity.

Thanks.

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a very interesting dialogue, and obviously a sensitive subject...

i identified as bi for about 3 years or so (after my divorce from a man). a little over a year ago i finally figured out that i'm a lesbian. what i have to say comes from my experience, as well as my second-wave radical feminist studies...

but first, let me say that i have several friends who are in various places and/or stages of their bicuriosity and/or bisexuality. some who openly identify as bi, some who are too confused to know what to call themselves, and i support them all wherever they are in their journey...

one third of all mammals are bisexual. that's biology. i know that other species that are closest to humans are largely bisexual. i think it's biologically pretty normal. the problem is that human beings are far more complex than that. while we are products of genes and biology and chemicals, etc. we are also products of our culture, our education, our interactions, etc...

i won't date wimyn who identify as bi, for a few reasons. 1) i believe that bisexual women either eventually decide to live as/discover they are lesbians, or they marry men. if you feel you can be with a man or a woman and it really doesn't matter to you, are you going to go with the one who society finds acceptable, or the one you will be marginalized for? (rhetorical question.) i've seen this many times. i'm pushing 30. i don't waste my time with people who aren't seriously looking for a partner. this is tied in with... 2) my lesbianism is such a huge part of my feminism. i think most wimyn who identify as bi are having trouble parting with their hetero privilege, as well as having trouble parting with their relation to men. we are not taught to value our relationships with wimyn in this society. people are viewed by their relationship to the penis (do you have one? are you married to one? etc.). it's scary when you take that away. i want to be with another womyn who is completely womyn-identified.

my last girlfriend told me she was bi several weeks into our relationship. we had a really long talk with her and i told her how i felt and how i felt things would end up. she assured me that none of those things applied to her, i had nothing to worry about. i wanted to be open-minded and see if i was wrong (i'm always willing to be). as it turned out, i was 100% on the money.

i know that really identifying as bi isn't easy. my friend sarah feels like she has to come out to her mom every few months because her mom just doesn't believe her or take her seriously. i support her in her struggle. i aslo watch her date mostly men, because it's easier. she has also said she wants to be able to have a pretty traditional family, which probably means a man. so, while i love and support her, and she's stunningly gorgeous, would i ever (unless she completely jumped the fence) have a romantic relationship with her? no way.

again, i fully support all of you bi's in your journey and your struggle and respect your decisions/orientations/identities/etc.etc... while at the same time hoping you understand a little better why so many lesbians would prefer not to date you...

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Wow. Persephone (love the name btw) thanks for providing your insight to this issue. I share some of your thoughts and opinions. I have been blessed to be in two long term relationships with womyn who were lesbians and I have not dated a bisexual before, but I won't rule out the possibility of dating a TRUE bisexual. I would definately steer clear of the post Madonna-Britney Kiss bisexual womyn (I'm sure we all know who they are) who are just using the label to make themselves appear more desirable to men. Like lesbianism, bisexuality is a lifestyle that involves more than who you fuck, however I think many people who identify as bisexual think it only has to do with who you bed down with. I have a friend who has just come out as a bisexual and I know how hard it is for her, but I keep reassuring herself that she will find the real Carolyn because deep down inside she's in there. She did tell me about the bad experiences she has had with womyn she would meet and they'd find out she was bi and they told her they couldn't be with someone like that :(

One bad apple spoils the whole bunch...

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hi there :) i don't really feel like it's a bad apple thing. i think it's really about what happens the majority of the time. i've actually met very few wimyn who are doing it to be attractive to men. i feel like it goes a lot deeper than that for most, and i totally respect that. i actually know wimyn who say they are bi but have never actually been with wimyn and are pretty much too chicken to be. i say chicken, but i know it's very complicated and scary. i feel like bisexuality, whether it be what we may consider only bicuriosity, or whether someone truly feels split (is a 'true' bisexual), involves more than a bit of identity confusion, personality disorder, psychological distress, etc. also, i never again want to have a girlfriend spring on me, "i'm bisexual, so i really feel like i need to be with a woman AND a man." ugh

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When I used the one bad apple reference I was refering to the women who only call themselves bisexual to justify why they want you to join in a threesome w/ their husband/boyfriend all in the name if bisexuality. I'm the monogamous type so I don't date/have a relationship with more than one person at a time, so I don't understand why some people feel they need to date both sexes at the same time, but that's not me and I continue to seek women who share the same mindset as me.

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While I am not that informed on the definitions of all the identities and labels, I think I can offer another perspective on the question of bisexuality. I'll begin by commenting on a few things,

first, I am bisexual, know it, have had many years to question and soul search, and can say, it isn't the physical so much. Someone mentioned or asked how a woman can be with both man and woman, etc. Well, that I think I do understand, I'm referring to two different relationships, not threesomes, etc., which btw, is not my thing and never will be, not saying that there is anything wrong with that, its just not my thing.

Ok, so, to the issue of being with both, well, how do I put this, I am married to a man, love him, do not intend on leaving him, etc., we are best friends and thats how we met actually, we were friends first. We talk openly about our intimate selves alot, always have, and he knows I am bisexual. Now I haven't had a sexual relationship with a woman, not yet, but I have had close friendships where I have wanted to have a sexual relationship, but at that time I was not ready to confront my sexuality and it just wasn't the time for me, etc.

As for cheating, no, I do not want a relationship behind my husbands back to cheat on him, etc., and we just talked about this today. I did fear, for a while that if I pursued my other half interest (really don't know how to say it) that it would hurt him, and I reassured him (and he understood and understands) that its not that I am disatisfied with him, I mean we have a great sex life, etc, well, great is understatement, its fantastic...but, there is more to us, to our relationship than just sex. And, as much as it would be nice to say he met all my needs and I him, etc., it just isn't so...we are far more complex than that, and he is very, very masculine (I think men can vary on levels of masculinity just as women do on feminity).

But emotionally, there is a part of me that just doesn't connect with him, in or out of the bedroom, and its not his fault and I don't blame him. Its not mine either, its just that I need more, does that make any sense? There is this part of me, that he doesn't understand, or relate to, is the better term. I think he may understand it a little, but he doesn't relate to it, although he has tried, and I have also tried...and I can only say that its the need in me to connect with the female part of me, in other words, I feel inside that I am like, both, and no, its not some disorder or personality flaw, its just who I am...

and its not just curiousity nor am I looking for a threesome with me and my husband or vice versa...not that we haven't talked about what it would be like, etc., we have, but its not my heart's desire. And this much I do know, I have no desire to sleep with another man other than my husband...as male and female, we have that bond, a special bond and there is no desire for me to break that...but thats the one side of me...

then there's this other side, that aches for a love relationship with my other half, on the woman side (this is so hard for me to explain...so bear with me), not just in the physical sense, and its not that I haven't thought about it, alot, but, its not the sensual urge part I think about so much as it is the physical and mental connection, that connection that only two women can share, something that a man and woman (from my experience) can't share, because well, there is that difference, in make-up, etc.

And I'm not going to lie to you and say I haven't thought about this, struggled with this, because I do take my marriage vows seriously, however, I also, have to say, that I am more than just my husband's wife, partner, etc. There are times, and I'll just be blunt here, that I'd rather just have sex with myself (LOL, is there a label for that, lol, because I can have some awesome sex with myself...a little humor there)...is it because I want to cheat on him or that I don't love him, no, of course not...but he can't fill (or I him) all his needs, etc....there are times I just want to be alone, have my thoughts, my dreams, apart from him. In other words, my own identity, per se (and I think that we should have our own identity, regardless of what type of relationship, because if we can't love ourselves and be comfortable with ourselves then how can we expect to truly love anyone else, regardless of gender?

And I will tell you,that yes, I have thought about, and very seriously, about the ramifications or impact of my having a relationship with a woman would do to her...which is maybe why I think its probably good to form a relationship with another bisexual who is married as well (and yes, I have run across alot of adds for threesomes, etc., but I have to say, by reading alot of them, those types are looking for recreational sex, not so much relationship+sex+connection, etc; however, I have also run into just as many adds of bisexual married women who feel, similar to the way I do, that there is two parts of them, etc).

To give you an example (and why I chose the sign on that I did), Frida Kahlo, famous artist/communist, was madly in love with her husband, Diago Rivera (artist/communist) and yet, she had many lovers, both male and female. She had more lovers, and some longterm that were women however than male. So did Simone de Beauvoir, for example...

I don't believe they had any sort of disorder, or were just looking for experimentation (in fact, Frida was in love with two women that I know of and Simone I now had a long term love affair with another woman, she spoke of her very often in her diaries/letters to Sartre, etc),

these were very intelligent women, who like us, (and just think of the time that they lived in, talk about some bold, revolutionary women now), intelligent women who influenced the world like in a major way, and still are, long after their passing.

As for him thinking me and another woman is 'hot', no, thats not it either, in fact, majority of his ex girlfriends who are still his close friends were bisexuals, and two of them came out of closet as lesbians after their relationship with him (and no, he doesn't turn women into lesbians, etc., yea, we've heard that one before, no, I just think its because he doesn't confine women or men for that fact, in some box of like, you have to be this or that, etc). And to the fact that my relationship with a woman would be between me and her, not me, her, and him, and vice versa...because she would be just as special to me, as he is to me....does that make any sense?

I do think, though, and I understand it, that lesbians would and do prefer (as some here have said, although I don't think you can generalize or catagorize people, etc as being the same, etc), relationships with other lesbians, and it does make sense. But I don't wonder so much as it being a male/female to female thing as much as I think its just a person to person thing...in other words, monogamy type thing.

I will say, too, that I have wondered how much my evolution as a feminist (and extremely anti patriarchial and anti capitalist) has to do with my orientation...or better said, my inner growth, preferences, etc. And for me personally, thats a huge part of it, and I also have to say, that while I do love my husband, there is that conflict there too, and I am not sure, really, what impact my having a sexual relationship with another woman would have on that aspect...but I would have to say, it wouldn't be (if there was any impact on my feelings) the relationship or her, per se, as it would be my continual rejection of patriarchial relationships, etc. (and I am sure that doesn't make any sense, LOL, I am not really good at writing my feelings, etc in words)

I often wonder if we would have these questions, or to what extent, if we lived in communal or matriarchial/or matrilinear societies...because I do think alot of our thoughts, etc., are due to social conditioning, nuclear family, and so forth...and I think in a lot of ways, it has (the make up of our societies) sort of screwed us all up, a bit...but thats just my personal observations and feelings (and maybe I'm projecting here)

but I will say, and this is I think fact, that the traditional nuclear patriarchial relationship/roles that women have internalized, has and does do alot of harm, to our inner most self...there is a major lack of real sisterhood in our nation (and btw, I dated a man from the East years back, and he shared with me that in the Islamic society in which he lived, bisexuality -- women-- was very common, and wasn't really looked down upon, because of the way the society is, segregated, male and female, etc...and most men were not even aware because of the segregation...its like, this secret, people know but don't speak of, etc, so that I think, speaks volumes)...

sigh, it is complex isn't it? Wish it were simple, but I don't think it is, not really, well, it isn't for me...but I do know life is too short to limit ourselves to what others perceive as the 'way'...and I just keep thinking, life is so much more, you know.?

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Well, I thought I'd share my opinion and a little about my situation. I came out as bi, but I prefered women. I never wanted to completly rule out the idea of a guy. I dated mostly women for years and then I meet a guy who I really liked. So, I decided to give it a shot. It went well in every situation except I wasn't turned on by him, sexually. That became to important for me to allow my self to be just content. I now say I am a lesbian.

But what really gets me is when women say they are a lesbian, but end up with a man. If you like both you should say bi.

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