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Signs, Signs Everywhere Signs...

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Okay, I think I need some clarity on something I have heard so many times from married bisexual women. You're married, don't plan on leaving your husband yet you want a woman to be your secondary relationship, however you don't plan on making her your primary relationship because you're not willing to dump the male half. Now do you consider this wrong or cruel in some sorta way? I think in a situation like this someone is going to get hurt, it's inevitable as there are two people's feelings at stake and even though they may be ookay with it in the beginning someone is going to have their heart broken in the end. How do you feel about this? 

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i hear ya, lise. that's why i think something kahloeyes said was right on the money:

I think its probably good to form a relationship with another bisexual who is married as well.

that really seems like the only reasonable solution. they share a common desire, as well as a common choice of lifestyle. they will understand each other and (hopefully) respect each other's marriages. i can't see a lesbian getting involved in a situation like that unless she's a masochist.

p.s. kahloeyes, i love that you quote eleanor marx!

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Hi, ok, I'll reply to both, Lise441 and Persephone, (I'm up late, lol reading through these posts, wow, so much, and some of its kind of confusing, lol, alot of analysis)

ok, Lise441, for one, she wouldn't be secondary, she too would be primary. And yes, Persephone is correct, this is why I would seek out someone with like mind, etc (and I have read some similar like me, that want two partners, long term and even life time, kind of like a male partner and a female partner, etc and I was a little surprised that over the past year, I've seen more like this). I've even seen couples wanting another couple for like, a foursome marriage type thing, LOL, don't ask me how that would work I have no idea, but well, what can I say.

I also have to add that I have children, and my marriage is a blended family, with children, so that has to be taken into consideration, therefore, I would seek out women who were also in like situations or who were comfortable with my situation, etc. So, lets say, hypothetical, that I was to meet a woman, who was not married, and was a bisexual looking for a long-term relationship, or a lesbian looking for a long term relationship, well, I would really have to be very upfront with her, (btw, I'm somewhat of a realistic type person, having lived on the streets with two children, single parent for years, etc., I've lived a hellish life so I don't play up the pretense or live in a fantasy, if you know what I mean...can't afford to, etc so that may be why I am very realistic about relationships, etc),

anyhow, I would have to be upfront with her, and honestly, unless she was older (40s +) and comfortable with my being married, etc., I would have to keep the relationship friend-platonic, etc, because I wouldn't delude myself into thinking (or her for that fact) that things may change. I have read some accounts of lesbians and/or bi's who have fallen madly in love with married women, and even women who are in bad marriages but can't leave at the time due to children, financial reasons, etc., and the woman is just miserable, waiting and hoping, and frankly, I don't think thats fair. I wouldn't want that done to me, so I sure wouldn't do it to someone else.

So yes, being married and bisexual IS complicated, from everything I have read, researched, its not the same, like, two single lesbian women meeting and forming a deep relationship, etc...and from what I have seen, so far, is two scenarios,

one, is bi women who are married that have short term, or experimental, or just sex buddy type relationships, etc., with other bi women or lesbians, etc. Usually they are not wanting monogamy and I really can't say alot on the why's, etc., because I would have to presume it differs from case to case.

the other is bi women who are married that have long term love relationships with other bi women who are married, and I've even seen (read) about some that have lasted a lifetime, its rare, but it happens. And I think in those situations (what I have assumed by reading) is that the relationship is a mutual, friend and lover relationship, like friends but that is more intimate, etc (well something like that).

Now, I think too, there can be issues where the men are concerned, as well, and too, this I think varies on the type of marriage, or how open the marriage is, etc. I have read of one account where two women fell in love, were not in the best of marriages, and both left their husbands and moved in together and are now life time whether this is more so during certain phases in life (age) I don't know....but there is a good study on this, I just saw it the other day, on women who in their 40s, etc., either come to terms with their bisexuality, or with their lesbian (not sure is it lesbianism, ???--forgive me, I'm new on alot of the terminology) and I would have to wonder, if there is something about getting to a point where relationship with a man is no longer attractive (and I know I am probably getting into something here that is uncomfortable, but I have been in several abusive relationships in the past, so I tend to explore these areas...have needed to, for my own closure, understanding, etc), and some women (emphasis on some) just get turned off by heterosexual relationships, etc and pursue bisexuality, or lesbianism??? And I don't think there is anything wrong with that, (I think we've learned to limit ourselves due to social conditioning, etc., and maybe why the whole bisexual thing is a touchy subject, etc, for some, don't know, I am not well read on this yet)

but I am also speaking from my own evolution (and I call it evolution because, lol, I have evolved, so much...grown, changed, etc., and much of its been through alot of pain...however, it came through looking through that pain, facing it, asking why, etc., and looking for answers, and so forth...and I do think, its different for everyone, etc)

but I will say, that part of my evolution, was one day, and it hit me hard, but I used to be so soft, inside, in my younger days, and through the years and through alot of pain (mostly due to bad relationships with men, etc), and also, I work in activism on women's issues (violence against women, etc) and that has had a Major impact/influence on me....more than words would ever express here,

but one day, it hit me, just how hidden that woman in me had become, because having to survive (and being very hard ass to survive, etc), I guess she got lost I started to seriously search, within myself, think, alot...

(and I think men too, go through this, this is what I meant about patriarchy and capitalism because of how we internalize commodification/exploitation, stripping away of humaness, etc, comradry and communal family, etc harming us in ways we are not often aware of, again, Gramsci good one to read on this)...

so, to answer your question, my perceptions on loving, have changed. So, if I were to meet that special someone (woman), she would be my primary, female love just as my husband would be primary male love...and yes, it would be better if she has her primary male love,

now, I guess my question has been, (and something I am struggling with), is why the need for more than the one to one monogamy? Is it simply a lack of sisterhood (and yea, we say sister in the West but we really don't have the sisterhood that is common in like, Eastern societies, etc), or is it, that women are more dimensional, [but come to think of it, there is more bi men that are married out there than women, hmmmm],

or is it, that the answer lies in the whole nuclear set up thing? I don't know, but I do know, I believe you can love more than one person at the same time...and just as strong and well you know, come to think of it, LOL, men did it, at once, they had more than one wife, etc., and society doesn't really scoff at that too much,

so why is it any different for women? You know, Lise441, if you would have asked me this, like 15 years ago, I would have said, oh, there can only be one primary and no one else...but I would have to say, that now, looking back, my feelings then, (and I'm referring to either heterosexual or homosexual relationships here) were more of what I felt about my wanting to be the one and only special, etc...

but, on the other hand, I personally draw the line at the whole free sex play around thing too, (been there, done that, and its not all its cracked up to be, and again, I don't think it matters whether its heterosexual or homosexual, etc), because people are people, not just flesh to get off on, etc...(and I do think there is a lot of that in our society today and I would have to ask, how much of that is due to fear of true intimacy, not intimacy in a sexual way, you know you can be with someone for years, have sex, take marriage for instance, and never be really intimate, etc), and the fact that materialism has taken precedence over humanism, etc...think Plato once wrote something on this...

now not trying to be puritanical (and I am not, by no means), there is this song, by Tori Amos, can't recall the name, but it goes something like this, "why would I lie with you or something like that, when you don't value what I value, etc etc",

and from personal experience, (boy it sure pays some heavy bills), or maybe facing getting older, death, etc., I am just seeing things very differently...

so that special woman, friend, lover, would be very primary and would be just as precious to me, as the rest of my family is to me, my friends, my comrades...just more on an intimate level (mental and physical)...and I suppose I am fortunate that my husband is ok with this...

in fact, he admitted to me, that he had a gay relationship at one time, long ago (in his 20s) so, well, hmmm,

he told me, why limit yourself to only loving one half of the human population? And I'm rambling on here, so sorry, LOL...and Persephone, yes, I love Eleanor Marx, I love Kollanti (Alexia Kollanti) too, my favorite work of hers is "Red Love", about a love relationship between an anarchist and a communist, it was symbolic too, however, of Russia (1900s) and of course, well, anyhow...

this whole understanding of our sexuality, never gets any easier, does it?

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OH, and I have to say this...

regarding the STDs, and Aids,

there are segments of populations literally Dying out due to Aids, (Africa, Asia, etc) and its not because of bisexuals or homosexuals...

its due to the patraiarchy and misogyny cultures that have deemed women to less than second class status, by men who absolutely refuse to wear condoms (Congo, for example, even with the education of the risks, of military men sleeping with prostitutes, the men still refuse to wear condoms because women, to them, have no value, etc),

its due to the fact that still today, the ratification of women's rights internationally has still not been signed, by US in fact...

so, no, STDs are not caused by bisexuals...nor is AIDS. Fact, AIDs and STDS are higher in numbers and increasing in heterosexuals, (even though we don't hear about it as much now, it hasn't gone away),

and while I am not into the free sex (and when I say free sex, I am referring to sleeping with anyone, not caring about that person, basically using that person like a sex toy, and am speaking of 'intent' here, I am not referring to casual sex, that is understandable and consenting between two adults, with a basis of respect, and caring (not committed or in long term relationship, etc...) about the other person, and again, I think that goes to the 'intent'... and I would have to say, by experience, that men, more than women, use people, with no regard for that person's (women here) welfare, etc....and that actually, stems from the subjugation of women in the first place (the women's place or role is this, etc etc etc)

and I only mention this because I work around (politics) alot of men that are really big into the 'free sex' ideal, but when you probe, dig deeper, its basically women are just T & A to be screwed and tossed aside, so thats what I do speak against, etc...

and its that degradation of women, that has caused AIDs in many countries, that and sexual trafficking (India, Nepal, etc)...

so, no, again, STDs and AIDS is not due to women having sexual freedom and choice...and I cannot emphasize that enough...and I think too, that is alot of the reasons I did come to terms with my sexuality, because haven't we been dictated to long enough, by what our place should be as far as sex is concerned? (or relationships, etc) by the norms set historically by 'men'?

and I also have to say, regardless of whether a woman is heterosexual, lesbian, bi, etc., if she has chosen, to be the master of her sexuality and chooses who and when she will sleep with (that same freedom that men have been entitled to for centuries), that doesn't make her a 'slut'...

I'm sorry but I had to comment on that...we've been subjugated long enough, its time we rise up, and be empowered...

because its through that empowerment and self acceptance that we learn to treat others with that same respect, empowerment, and acceptance...we should remember that. I don't agree with alot of choices that other women may make, but I agree that they have the right to make those choices, without being labeled in negative connotations...etc.

Not wanting to be offensive here, but felt that should be pointed out. We have enough to battle against, (oppressive societal more's, sexism, etc) and we have to be careful, I think, that we don't transfer that to each other, etc...because it effects us all, it really does.

In regards to the cheating, no one likes being cheated on, it hurts, it makes us feel violated, etc., and I see what is being stated there, etc., but it takes two in a relationship, there are those that cheat, sure, that do so for reasons that I don't concur with (and again, I think its that whole fear of intimacy, much easier to hide, or build walls if we go from person to person, etc...and of course, its more complex than that, etc...and its not always fear of intimacy, etc), it sometimes is poor communication or the inability (or fear of) being honest and telling your partner that you want out, etc., or there could be various other reasons.

And I am not condoning cheating, don't get me wrong...but I would have to add, that women, (speaking of West here, and again, not limiting this to heterosexual or homosexual relationships) have not had that many years of sexual liberation (if you know what I mean) and I think we are still processing alot of it, etc...(in spite of the backlash, rise in conservatism, etc), and still learning about that whole power issue, etc...

don't know why I felt the need to say any of this, but I did...maybe why there is that need for more understanding, and tolerance, etc...

again, please don't take this wrong, I'm not saying any of this to be spiteful or catty, I work in activism, women's rights (and labor issues) and there are vast numbers of women dying of AIDS in India (from being forced into brothels, etc, via trafficking, etc), populations dying in Africa (and its also because of geo-political racism---) and numbers of AIDs, is increasing in women in Latin America, Asia, Russia...

so yea, I'm kind of outspoken and adament on issues like this, because in those societies, women's sexuality is so controlled and to say, that aids and/or stds are higher in bisexuals, etc., or like, blaming women. (and in many of the traditional patriarchy/misogynist cultures they do blame women, hell they blame women for being raped, etc) and thats why I had to comment on this.

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I definetly feel ya lise. There isn't anyway to avoid someone getting hurt. Unless they were both in other relationships. If not I think it is wrong for the one in the relationship with a man to allow the other to be set up for faliure. If she really loved or cared about her she wouldn't want to see her settle. I don't see how she would think she could have two people both being primary in one relationship with her. Someone somewhere will have to take the back seat. And even if they say nothing they are probably back there crying.

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BlueBlaze, you hit my point right on the nail. I don't believe there's a such thing as two primary relationships. You are 100% right, someone has to take the back seat because there cannot be two passengers. The female half of the relationship cannot be primary if you make a point of verbally/mentally saying that you will not leave your male half no matter what. The person you refuse to leave is obviously your primary relationship or you would leave the option open to being with him or her long term. It's like you can take or leave the female half, but the male half stays no matter what. Persephone, you make a goo point too, thanks for chiming in. When I thougt I was bisexual (the things we do to find out who we really are  ) I never dated a man and woman at the same time out of respect for myself and for them. I felt that if I was going to be with a man I was with him and him ONLY, and if I was going to be with a woman I was hers and hers ONLY, but I was never satisfied with dating a male and soon discovered that I was a lesbian. I understand that relationships have degrees of complication no matter what, but at the same time why would you set three (or four or five, etc, etc) people up in a situation where somebody is going to get hurt? Maybe it's crazy of me to think this way, but I'm not sadistic and don't want to put anyone in the position to get hurt. I go out of my way to preserve a persons feelings/emotions.

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in response to the latter post, again, I emphasize that for me personally, I would seek out one in a relationship (married, or coupled with a man) rather than one who is single, etc....

but, I've been thinking on this (and time is limited right now but I am going to address this further in depth later, especially this notion about privilidge, that women keep or choose male relationships, speaking of bisexuals here, etc., and which I think that assumption is bourgeousie, if being married was a priviledge, etc., then how do you explain the poverty (rise in bankruptcy in married families/with children, the double burden, the fact that womens till make 70cents to a dollar that man makes, etc etc...I think that marriage is more an economic necessity for thousands because of the economic system in which we live...don't think so, think we are so liberated, take a good look at statistics of the numbers of women and children in poverty, both married and single, the whole set up of the institution of marriage is a bourgeousie practice, same goes for the imposing this monogamy on women, to ensure the economic dependence and that market of exploitive labor, its one thing when you are single without children, its a whole other situ when you have children to support, as sole supporter...which by the way, are the Number one segment in this nation that are in dire reason why women will stay in abusive relationships, the support systems are not there, instead of knocking women who are married to the 'enemy' per se, its about time we stand in solidarity with them, because its that same system that works against them that works against the lesbian, bisexual, gay male, etc etc etc. will touch on that later -- ),

but in regards to bi, monogamy, etc etc...

for one, I would choose that type of relationship for myself not solely for the reasons listed here, But because, for me whats most important, whether male or female, is whether we could connect, relate on a mental basis, because for me, if there isn't an intellectual connection, forget it, don't care how hot or sexy or whatever, sex for me is more than just the body functions. Nothing turns me on more than when I am intellectually stimulated, challenged, and so forth...

now that aside, another important element, for me personally, is that there is some common ground, not identical, but some common, and being that I am married, and have children, have been divorced, single parent as well as single for several years, I have gone through many life phases therefore, it would be I think, important that my partner could relate to those life experiences, somewhat. Being married (and my marriage isn't a bed of roses, let me assure you, there are times its good and times that are not so good, etc., and since I do have a relationship with a man, one who though liberated can still be chauvinistic at times, added to that the complexities and challenges of raising children and in my case, blended family, etc., and to the fact that as a feminist, there are challenges and obstacles that I face often, in combining family unit, etc and still retaining my own identity, self, woman self, etc etc etc...), it would be difficult I think, having a relationship with someone who would not relate to those experiences, etc. My point is, I think it would be easier, healthier to form a relationship with one in similar situ because there would be understanding on things on a deeper level, you get what I am saying?

I mean the same goes for friendships (platonic), I have friends of all ages, male and female, but the closest ones are those that of course can relate to the life experiences, they don't have to be necessarily married but I do find that if they have been or are married, with children, etc., then of course, they know (can relate, etc) the issues that I face, etc...and vice versa (me understanding their situ, etc).

But, all that aside, this is my 'preference', However, I do not believe that this is the Only option, and I'll clarify why. To say that a woman would be maschocist if she were in a relationship, by Her choice, with a bi woman, married or not, but focus here on the married, is to in a way say that woman's choices (the partner here) is not healthy or valid or whatever...

so I would ask, has it occurred to you that maybe some women choose to be in that type of relationship, not because they are masochist but because they are secure in themselves and do not need a sole commitment to feel loved and secure, or content, etc? Going to the one story I mentioned earlier about the lesbian that was in love with a married bisexual, who couldn't leave husband at the time due to other reasons, financial, etc...

this woman Chooses to be with this woman, she loves her, and she is very upfront about it. I don't think she's a masochist or less than, or in need of some protection here, I think she's made her decision, has found what makes her happy and so who are we to say whether its right or wrong? Do I think it could be better if there wasn't that complication, well sure, but is she not a consenting adult with just as much right as anyone to decide for herself what is best for her? And maybe, just maybe some women don't want to be in a monogamous relationship only, or maybe some women want to retain some independence and freedom, without the confinement and still be in a relationship, etc...

but my point is, when we set restrictions on what is right, good, or what is not, bad, etc., are we then not attempting to set controls over a woman's sexual behavior, her choices? To say that if one was to have a relationship with a woman while married, and how unfair and unright that would be, is to somewhat say that women aren't capable of making their own destiny, choices about what is good or desirable for them. I think women are smart enough to know the risks involved, to make wise and capable decisions, and not have to feel guilty because maybe their decisions don't meet with the status quo...

its like, I see this sort of bad girl and good girl type of philosophy here, in regards to the being faithful, not having more than one love partner, etc etc., and honestly, I don't see alot of difference from that and the type of good girl bad girl type of mentality in traditional patriarchial thinking. And another thing, that I think is important to add, that I am talking about women, such as myself, who are open with their husbands about their sexuality, etc., its not like I'm hiding behind closed doors here,

so, I guess, the implication that bi women who are married are this sort of selfish creature with no consideration or love for other women, is presumptious and that women who have relationships with this women are somehow victims? Sure, there are those who are seeking only physical connections, or threesomes, etc., but I have to say, in all the requests for such that I have read, its not like they are hiding that, they just come right out and say it...

now, as a woman that is capable of making decisions, etc., I can either say no or yes, etc. Now if someone is being not truthful, then sure, thats another matter altogether.

I think, if you really love women then you allow them the freedom to choose and respect their right to do so and not put some form of restrictions on their sexuality or types of relationships they seek, etc, nor do you judge them for those choices, its called, liberation. Women have been dictated to long enough by patriarchial and the male dominated society about what is correct behavior and what isn't, and I see a tad bit of transference of that pious religious type of controlling women's sexuality here and there...

if the type of relationship isn't for you then its not for you, etc., but that doesn't mean that what works for you, or me, or any of us here, should be the all prequisite for all women, and that includes heterosexuals too. When will we begin to allow women the freedom to decide what works for them, for them personally, regardless of whether its our preference or not, and love them unconditionally regardless, rather than try to set some kind of mold that women should fit into? Isn't there enough of those in the fanatical movements that are fighting to put homosexuality in the closet, put women back into the dark ages and into the subjugated roles already.

It really does work both ways, in regards to tolerance for choices, lifestyles, I said, both Frida and Simone, both powerful and influential women I might add, and I also would add that they, with many others like them, fought the status quo so you and I Could have that freedom to choose,

well many of them were bisexuals and married, and many of their female partners were just fine with that...they weren't victims, etc. They were women, both bisexuals, lesbians, and heterosexuals who bucked the male dominated system and said to hell with the restrictions and social mores, and embraced their sexuality,

and were not afraid to love, to live, with all the passion they could muster. Not only that, they dedicated a big part of their lives and energy in fighting for the rights of all women, people, against many forms of oppression and subjugation, and exploitation....

and yes, I am new to this community, and I sure don't understand alot, but one thing I do understand, and that is that a woman, and only that woman, has the right to decide and take ownership of her sexuality and choices, not by the standards imposed on her by others, including other women, but by her own standards and without retribution or being looked down upon because her standards or choices may not be what you would choose.

In solidarity,


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Isn't it the 1950's/19060's mentality to believe that you have to be married to make it in this world? I don't believe anyone, male or female, needs another person to make it in this world, children or no children. If you get into the habit of thinking "I need him...her to make it." then you will never know what it's like to stand on your own two feet because you're so used to having someone carry you along through life. But I guess to each its own 

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BlueBlaze, you hit my point right on the nail. I don't believe there's a such thing as two primary relationships. You are 100% right, someone has to take the back seat because there cannot be two passengers. The female half of the relationship cannot be primary if you make a point of verbally/mentally saying that you will not leave your male half no matter what. The person you refuse to leave is obviously your primary relationship or you would leave the option open to being with him or her long term. It's like you can take or leave the female half, but the male half stays no matter what.

Who said anything about taking or leaving the woman? Thats not what I said...when I said I wouldn't leave my husband, what I am saying is that I wouldn't just toss him aside because I am bisexual or that I am in a relatioship with a woman, if I ever were to leave my husband, who is, by the way, my comrade, it would be because our relationship wasn't working or for some other reason...

but that doesn't mean, that the woman, I could just take or leave her, which is why I emphasized for me, personally, two primary relationships...(with another married bisexual), and yes, it has been done. The implication that bisexual women just take or leave the other woman, is the insinuation that bisexual women are just looking for a fling, etc...

and that is not true in all cases. There are bisexual women who want both male and female partners, committed relationships with both, it isn't as common as lesbian relationships, sure, but they do exist, and they are more common of course in nations that are a tad more tolerant or more sexually free, etc.

Maybe it depends on the marriage, too, I am married and while its a joining, its retained alot of independence, my life and purpose doesn't center around my husband...we are friends, we love each other, we share our life, experiences (and btw, will tell you that for long time we lived together without marriage, but got married by legal standards because our insurance wouldn't cover the children unless we went that route...again, that capitalist institution and I detest it...because Every child has the right to health care, regardless...)

but anyhow, let me put it this way, is it then, not possible for a married woman to have a lifelong friendship with a woman? Then how is it that if intimacy is involved, then somehow, that bond cannot be, for long term and/or lifetime?

That doesn't make sense...and something else, there is alot of monogamous relationships out there, where the one partner is not primary in the life...could be that work is primary or the person's own interests is primary...monogamy isn't some guarantee that you are the one priority, at any or all times...if that were the case, there wouldn't be divorces.

And how do we define what primary is? Constant attention, time, etc...well, some do not like that, some like their space, etc (my husband and I are both the wanting space, time apart, our own selves, etc., very liberal marriage, I guess you could say...and there is a mutual understanding and respect for that...we are both academics/writers, activists, and both of us, are very independent, etc., emotionally that is, well, hard to explain, but we don't fit into the norm of marriage here according to our society, etc),

maybe its that whole thing about monogamy, maybe thats what I have issues with...its so constricting, (particularly on women, funny how the double standard still applies, etc),

there is a matriarchial society, small, in China, I was told by another female comrade (who lives in Canada) and she said, they (the women) choose their partners nightly, they are bisexual and heterosexual (she's in India right now working to help with Tsunami Aid, but when she gets back I'll ask her which clan it is), and the children have extended family, etc., but it seems to work for them,

The women I have met, that are married bisexuals, are not looking for one primary and one secondary, but two primaries that are 'different', because the relationships are different. There are things characteristic about the relationship between a man and woman that are different from the things characteristic about the relationship between woman and woman (speaking in terms of bisexual marrieds here)...

and the posts (like on those sites that people say what they are looking for, etc) they will say, in relationship/or marriage with man, etc etc., want someone that can be accepting of that, etc.,

and I do know those posts, like that, I see them more and more...(really alot of the male side of it...which surprised me), I don't know, really, how to explain it, but if you're looking for a committed relationship with a woman, with no others in the picture, then of course, you wouldn't want to be in a bisexual relationship with a married woman, nor would you, if you were a single heterosexual woman looking for a committed relationship with a man, look to get into a relationship with a married man...

sure, that makes sense, of course, but I'm talking about two bisexual married women, having a relationship, (not a fling, not a one nighter, etc) maybe short term, or longterm, maybe even a lifetime through death of spouse, etc (and yes, it has been done), that can love two people at the same time, the love is different, yes, but it doesn't mean that the love is 'less than'.

[not saying that bisexual women who are married that are looking for casual only -- that there is anything wrong with that, its up to the people involved and if it works for them, I say great...because people are different, what maybe the needs of some may not be the needs of others...heck, there are people out there that are happy being celibate, go figure]

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Isn't it the 1950's/19060's mentality to believe that you have to be married to make it in this world? I don't believe anyone, male or female, needs another person to make it in this world, children or no children. If you get into the habit of thinking "I need him...her to make it." then you will never know what it's like to stand on your own two feet because you're so used to having someone carry you along through life. But I guess to each its own

Economically speaking, statistically Proven, that single heads of households are more likely to be in poverty...does that mean they 'need to be married to make it', or that they are used to having someone carry them, NO,

what it means is that there is economic inequality and there are the majority of working class that bust their asses and still don't make it, and its worse for women, especially women with children. THAT IS FACT.

so yes, in that regard, because of the way our system is set up, marriage for many is an economic necessity, should it be that way, hell no, and why I fight to end the system and to abolish capitalism...

there are women who have children who work two jobs and still are not making it...there are women who are in abusive relationships and do not have the support system there to leave, because frankly, we have this mentality today that we have arrived, well, we haven't. Not by a long shot, we have numbers of homeless, children living in poverty, on the rise and with speed in this nation, many of whom the parents/or mothers, and single heads of household fathers I might add, that are Working,

they aren't looking for anyone to carry them,

they are looking for a living wage. FACT, numbers of bankruptcies filed by Two parent working families with children increased in 2004 and in single heads of households with children. FACT, sociological studies show that women are more apt to get out of poverty if married, etc., even with education. FACT, having an education doesn't gaurantee that you will not be in poverty.

So, yes, because of how the system is set up, for many, marriage (and there is that element of lack of extended and communal famillies that is contributor as well) is an economic necessity for many women, not all women make a 40,000 K, nor can all women afford to go to college (and even if they do, by time they load up the student loans they are in debt for life, such as myself) and even if, lets say, they make good income, by the time childcare swallows it up, and housing costs, etc etc., is it any wonder then why many opt for marriage?

Does that mean I am promoting 50s mentality, NO, it means that until economic exploitation, via capitalism, is overthrown, there is not such thing for liberation for all women...FACT. Sure, it would be nice to deny the FACTS, but the facts are very there, and if one doesn't see that, then they aren't paying attention...

and which is why I am a Marxist Feminist and not just a Feminist. Women are the most likely to be exploited as cheap labor, both domestically and internationally, FACT...and I'll fight it till the day I die.

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Like I said, to each its own...

But I did want to touch on this:

monogamy isn't some guarantee that you are the one priority, at any or all times...if that were the case, there wouldn't be divorces.

Actually monogamy is just that. When does monogamy no longer qualify as monogamy? When someone steps outside of the relationship, hence the reason for divorces. People in monogamous relationships don't get a divorce because they were both faithful to the other (there are other reasons why monogamous couples get a divorce), but couples do where one or both people are unfaithful. Monogamy is no longer monogamy when one or both people involved committ an act the dissolves the monogamy.

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in regards to monogamy, I see what you are saying, but what I meant, is that, just because you are in a monogamous relationship, doesn't necessarily mean you are the priority in your partner's life...other things can take priority, such as work, interests, etc...

and can be just as damaging to a relationship as affairs, etc. I understand what you are saying, about faithfulness, etc...but too, on the other hand, I also understand how open marriages, if both parties are consenting and in agreement, can work for them...and if they are both consenting and there is mutual understanding, then I don't see that as cheating, alternative lifestyle, yes, but not cheating...cheating, I would think, is when you or your partner are having a relationship behind the other's back, being dishonest and not having an open consentual agreement to such.

Let me put it this way, I wouldn't sleep with another man, but, too, if I had relationship with a woman, I wouldn't sleep with another woman either...speaking in terms of bisexuality here...but the important thing would be that all of this would be out in the open, mutual consent (no hiding or illusions or promises of other than), understanding and agreement...thats how I think any relationship should be, singular or multiple.

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Thank you Unknown for the words of encouragement. I still, of course have questions and doubts [don't we all?] but I have found that in my studies (empirical and materialist dialectics, etc) on the institution of marriage and the control of women's sexuality, etc., that the there is alot of areas [in sexuality] that I think are still not understood...and I don't think its simply a matter of the physical, urges, per se, but I think there is that issue of power, powerlessness, emotional attachment and detachment, need for affirmation, and vice versa, etc etc etc...

all those combined, and of course other variables, including social conditioning, religious upbringing, cultural beliefs, and so forth all play a part.

I have though, decided that the best way to understand is to research scientific studies (rather than opinions because opinions of individuals/groups are often attributions, prejudice, misinformation, or information not based on empirical studies, and so forth...

so anyhow, I am now reading these studies on bisexuality, and found some really interesting ones (these are done by experts in the field of psychology and sciences, i.e., sociology, culture studies/anthropology, and so forth) and several dissertations have been written on bisexuality, so thought I'd post them here...

Also found that the term for prejudice and/or attribution towards bisexuals is called 'biphobia', yes, its actually a term, and a recent study in Germany, with empirical data, reveals that people under 30 tend to be more open about bisexuality (speaking of in gay/lesbian community) but that it varies towards male/female, also education level, exposure, and so forth...but this study was on 'attitudes' towards, not about what was normal, what wasn't, etc etc...

I think its good to understand and to seek out answers, and I do believe, that the more empowered women become, the more barriers are broke down, and the more we learn to be tolerant, etc of differences, the more we will understand the complex nature of human sexuality, love, relationships, etc (because when you read these studies, its not so black and white) and I find, it helps me to understand, here is a few recent studies, dissertations, etc., on bisexuality. I think you could probably find these studies and the journals in libraries -- check the reference and journals sections, or do online search...

Ault AL (1995). Science, sex, and subjectivity. Ph.D Thesis, The Ohio State University, DAI Vol. 56:04A, p. 1550, 180 pages.

Abstract by author: This research theorizes the emergence and institutionalization of a politicized bisexual identity category among women in the United States within the context of broader historical and social processes, and explores figure of the bisexual as a site of social contestation. The study examines the relationship between the institutionalization of modern science and the scientific construction of the body, sex, and sexual identity, and the congruence of these understandings with European masculinist and imperialist interests. The dissertation argues that the bifurcated homosexual/heterosexual categorization system associated with modern scientific discourse foreclosed on the emergence of a bisexual identity category until the destabilization of both gender and science in the late 20th Century. Substantively, the dissertation explores negative constructions of bisexual women in lesbian feminist discourse, demonstrating how the discourse of the dominant system is rearticulated in an oppositional community endeavoring to legitimize itself against a marginalized 'Other.' Bisexual women's own constructions of bisexuality and bisexual politics are examined to evaluate bi activists' claims that bisexual identity disrupts the dualistic sex/gender/sexuality system. This work, which relies on data collected from interviews and electronic (e-mail) questionnaires, extends social research on the constructed nature of the sex/gender/sexuality system, the mechanisms through which identity categories are controlled in relationships between social structure and subjective experience, and the relationships between identity and identity-based social movements. Because the dissertation uses both classic and postmodern sociological theoretical frameworks, the research delineates the continuity between these two broad theoretical approaches often described in oppositional terms. This strategy results in the identification of insights unique to both approaches as they address issues of categorization, marginalization, and social control. The direct focus of this study is the creation of a social identity category that violates the dichotomous structures of the sex/gender/sexuality system and its implications within that system; however, the dissertation holds relevance for other areas of study. The insights from this research should prove useful, for example, in research on other stratification systems based on identity categories, such as the racial stratification system in the United States.

Publication No. 9525988

Baltar JF (1998). The baltar sexual identity inventory – female form: a multidimensional measure of sexual identity. Ph.D. Thesis, Loyola University Of Chicago, DAI Vol. 58:12B, p. 6799, 198 pages.

Abstract by author: In 1991, this author developed a multi-faceted and quantifiable measure for sexual identity in males. A need was assessed for such an instrument given the inconsistent and often contradictory use of terminology in the study of sexual identity as well as a lack of awareness and/or attention to the complexity and multi-dimensionality of human sexuality. Research and theory has indicated that sexual identity should be examined on a continuum rather than in a dichotomous framework (homosexual or heterosexual). Further, it has been suggested that sexual identity can be viewed as multidimensional. The need for an adequate assessment tool has been identified. To date, instruments other than the BSII are either limited to components of sexual orientation, limited to one item per dimension which precludes an examination of the nuances which comprise the dimension, or are not quantifiable. This study attempts to construct a quantifiable instrument which will measure female sexual identity in terms of its dimensions using a series of items hypothesized to correspond to a specified construct. It additionally explores personality variables that are commonly associated with sexual identity such as self-esteem, feelings of guilt associated with sexuality, substance use, and fear of negative evaluation. The study resulted in the construction of the Baltar Sexual Identity Inventory - Female Form (BSII-F). The resulting measure consists of 10 dimensions totalling 102 items. The items comprising the measure have been arrived at through expert ratings and statistical analysis. This has resulted in very high inter-item correlations adding evidence to the content and construct validity of the BSII-F. Convergent and discriminant validity are indicated. The following dimensions were assessed by the BSII-F: (1) Current Lifestyle and Relationship Status; (2) Self-Perceived Sexual Orientation/Attraction; (3) Discomfort with Sexual Orientation; (4) Gender Identity; (5) Sex-Role Identity; (6) Emotional Attraction; (7) Sexual Behavior; ( Alcohol/Drug Use; (9) Social Behavior and Attitude; and (10) Bisexuality. Other established measures used to assess sex-guilt, fear of negative evaluation, and self-esteem. Participants consisted of 118 female volunteers obtained from the undergraduate human subjects pool of a large, urban, Mid-western university and its surrounding community. The subjects represented a wide demographic range, including age, race/ethnicity, marital/relationship and socio-economic status, education, and religious affiliation. This study has resulted in a measure which seems to be valid and more comprehensive than other available measures assessing sexual identity. The findings lend support to Troiden's (1984) model of sexual identity acquisition in which he addresses the complexity of sexual identification. More specifically, he targets the issue of self-esteem and self-concept in relation to sexual identification, viewing one's internal awareness and acceptance of self-identification in relation to societal, or external, acceptance and support. The less the discrepancy between an individual's present identification and 'ideal' identification, the less guilt, fear of negative evaluation, and subsequent discomfort should be experienced, regardless of sexual identification.

Publication No. 9819591

Bradford M (1997). The bisexual experience: living in a dichotomous culture. PH.D. Thesis, The Fielding Institute. DAI, Vol. 58-03B, p. 1520, 262 pages.

Abstract by author: This is a study of the experience of being bisexual. It examines how bisexually-identified individuals experience cultural attitudes toward bisexuality, how they establish a sense of community for themselves, and how their experience has affected their self-concept. Twenty people self-identified as bisexual - 10 each women and men, ranging in age from 22 to 54 - were interviewed for this descriptive study, based on the model of naturalistic inquiry. The research method was qualitative, using open-ended-question interviews and a content/thematic approach to analyzing the data. Participants collaborated in evaluating the findings; their feedback was incorporated into the final results. The data indicate that cultural attitudes toward bisexuality affected the participants' sexual identity development, self-definition, visibility, and relationships. Three steps in establishing a sense of community emerged from the data: perception of outsider status, location of bisexual individuals and community, and formation of new community. The effects on self- concept of forming and maintaining a bisexual identity included enhanced self-reliance, openness, and enrichment. Both gender and cultural minority status had an impact on their experiences of bisexuality. The findings suggest that bisexual identity inVolves a process of questioning one's own reality, inventing one's own identity, and maintaining that identity through encounters with cultural bias, denial, and personal invalidation, which carry constant threats of isolation and invisibility. For those women and men who manage to achieve a positive bisexual identity despite these challenges the experience is character- strengthening, and some transform the adversity of their experience into social action, becoming leaders in the formation of bisexual community and role models for others.

Publication No. 9724081

These are just three studies, there are numerous others...and I will post more...

In solidarity, love and struggle,


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i'm sure all of this has already been said, or at least something close, but i want to have my say anyway. i'm an 18 year old bisexual in a long term relationship with a man, and while i do want to explore my sexuality with a woman, i tried being with a single woman and, as has been said, it did not work out. she became too close and, while not identifying it as "love", she did not want me to leave, which i will have to once i am married.


i have friends, two women and a man, who are all in a relationship with each other. the man and one of the women are legally married, and the other woman is in a loving, caring relationship with both members of the couple. this, i'm sure, is not terribly common as it would be difficult for most people to handle without much argument and strife. i would just like to throw that out there and say, yes, it is possible for such a relationship to exist.

at the moment i am looking for another woman who is in a committed relationship, or one who is willing to try a relationship with both me and my male counterpart.

i'm sure there are strong opinions on this subject; i know some feel that it's impossible, some feel it would take more maturity than most could handle, and most just say those people are greedy and oversexed. i, however, have seen such a relationship in action and have high hopes for my friends and myself.

on the topic of general bisexuality, i was not at first sexually attracted to women. i had always been more about men, but i knew that i could love women just as strongly and fiercely as i had ever loved a man. then, after years of this, i realized that i was strongly sexually attracted to my best friend. this past fall i realized that i'd been holding myself back, thinking that sex with women was wrong, as i had been brought up to believe.

i am not "having trouble making up my mind" or "not wanting to choose". i love women, and i love men. and i fully believe that people can love more than one person. i do not, however, think that anyone should hurt anyone through bisexuality. if this is causing barriers, but the woman feels unfulfilled with only a man, she should look for another woman with the same sentiments.

and an understanding boyfriend.


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On my web site, I've written a little article on the issue of bisexual and other such labels. My best friend is bi and one of the managers of my site is bi and I love them both with all my heart. As a community who has watched others lose their life, lose their homes- careers, or attacked because of personal preferences; if we haven't succumbed to such injustices ourselves, how dare we pass judgement on our own? If a lesbian wants the right to love another woman as she so chooses, then who is she to tell a bisexual woman she doesn't have a right to love who the hell she wants? I've seen it a million times: internal predjudice and even internal racism. It makes my blood boil.

As a black girl, I see it so much even within race. Where other black people don't like other blacks who are darker or lighter than them. The struggle is the same for all of us, so why make our lives even harder by fighting amongst ourselves. To fight each other is to fight yourself. If you're striking out at an entire group of people you don't even really know, maybe it's because you don't like yourself very much for who you are.

Take a second- think about it.

We all want the same thing no matter the label...we just wanna be loved and accepted. Mind your own business; count your own money; keep your own house clean; and even if the pot can call the kettle black because it's black, the end, does it really matter?

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I don't know why folks get so up in arms about sexuality. The gfact is, long as you're not the one sleepin with the person, who cares what gender they're attracted to?...or , for that matter..who cares how many people they're having a relationship with? I'm monogamous cause I can't keep up with more than one woman at a time. Heck..LOL...I can't really keep up wih one! (they're just too hard for me to understand)

Far as I'm concerned, bisexuals are just tryin ta have their beefcake and get eaten too...LOL...nuthin wrong with that!

Since I'm transexual...I probably would never get a date if it weren't for bisexuals.....or queer femmes (I still haven't figured out what that's supposed to mean...but they sure get POd when ya call em lesbians!)

I guess my viewpoint is a little different than most folks. I just feel like we oughtta live and let live. Whatever makes you happy is important. As long as all the folks in a relationship are happy in that relationship...then it doesn't matter how many are in it.

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This thread makes me very upset.

Bi women like me who primarily date other women and only see men on a short-term basis really get the short end of the stick. (No pun intended.)

When we're in the straight community, we get all the discrimination that lesbians get. We get housing discrimination, threats to our physical well-being, and job discrimination. Saying "but I'm bi" doesn't make one iota of difference in those areas.

When we're in the lesbian community, we get rejection. Our authenticity is questioned, our loyalties considered suspect.

All I'm going to say here is that I am bisexual and I put women first every time. I always have and I always will. Nevertheless, I refuse to pretend that I am not attracted to men.

And no, I don't plan on getting married someday. I am *not* a recipient of heterosexual privilege. People in every area of my life know I'm queer.

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This thread has been interesting to read.

I totally agree with you, mischief. I'm a bisexual woman and while I've come to love that about myself, I feel that with others, I just can't win. There's discrimination in both the heterosexual and homosexual communities. I constantly have to prove myself, that I really am what I say I am, but if I succeed in doing so, then someone will inevitably hate who I am.

Forgive me for not quoting exactly, but something was brought up about how bisexuals eventually choose one or the other. But what's wrong with settling down? Just because I get into a relationship with a man, it doesn't mean that it was "just a phase" or "hormones" and I am no longer queer. If I date a woman, that doesn't mean that I'm simply clinging on to the widely accepted heterosexuality and calling myself bi while in transition to becoming a lesbian. I realize that this does happen, but it's disappointing to see that so many people use such cases to generalize when they know that personally, they would hate for somebody to pin a stereotype on them in a similar way.

Personally I don't like labels, and I think that they are in large part the source of this conflict. I do recognize that some people fall perfectly into one category or another, but I personally believe that the majority of people fall somewhere in between, in all areas of life. I think that even if I didn't have strong feelings for women, I'd hesitate to label myself as strictly heterosexual, because I'd be open to the possibility that someday, I may be attracted to someone of the same sex. And then what? Would I be attacked as a poser, labeled as a lesbian, shoved into some category and criticized based on one persons previous experiences? Maybe I shouldn't even identify as bisexual, because I haven't ruled out the possibility that some day, I may no longer feel an attraction to one gender. But still, somebody may come along...

It's a natural human tendency to categorize and label people or things. I think that in a lot of cases, it's a means of putting others down and lifting oneself up. As long as we can label people, we can keep them in these safe categories and determine whether or not we consider them good. Straight people can label queer people and discriminate against them. Not to generalize, but just to give an example of a thought process, a homosexual person might think, "well, the straight world has ostracized me, but at least I'm not as bad off as those bisexuals, who can't pick one side of the fence or the other." I feel like we've been shoved to the bottom portion of the totem pole.

I'm not out to a lot of people, and I've also had conversations in which I've been dismayed to find some of the most seemingly open-minded people criticizing bisexuality, "not believing" that it truly exists, dismissing all of those who identify as bisexual as sluts. I personally believe that if we all weren't so eager to determine labels, we might avoid a lot of the conflicts that arise.

Sorry, I know that I might have repeated a lot of what was said before. But those are just my thoughts on it.

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I am bisexual as well, thought I would join in.

I found that I am one of those bisexuals who need both in their lives. I would be very happy with both a husband and a wife. I came to this conclusion when half my heart always seemed empty, A guy can't fill what a girl fills, a girl can't fill what a guy fills. I thought about that a lot. I felt personally like I didn't want to have to choose to live lesbian or choose to live straight when I was neither and both, and choosing one or the other isn't what my heart was built for.

I coined the term "Bi-nogamous" a few years back. I use it to mean monogamy to two, one each gender, at the same time. I think some bisexuals can be with one person at a time, others of us can't. That makes it harder. Some people may think it's loose but it's not when you have deep committed relationships. I also am not in some type of indicision. If I am bi why can't I chose both and be all I am?

I think the hardest thing about being bi is that many people will accept straights and lesbians, but they tend to draw the line on us as "going too far" or "being confused". Well, at 32 I am not growing out of it *LOL* I think I pretty much know myself, and know what I need.

Nice to know there are other bi's here 

Ps- sidenote: I have been in equal relationship with two before- Because I have lived it, I believe it exists.

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My husband and I always dreamed of having a relationship with another woman, and although there was one who liked to play occasionally, she did not become partners with us.

I came out as bisexual when I was 22-24 years of age. I was pressured by my gay friends to jump the fence and become fully gay. I couldn't do that as I had a fantastic relationship with my husband who was also my best friend.

Flash forward 14 years and three children later, my husband had an affair with a young bisexual girl (22) and now he's living the dream again with her. I'm a single mother of three young boys and as I begin to dabble in dating anew, I wonder if I will date men or women.

When I was married I said to myself that if this relationship ever ended I really doubted that I would date men again. Why? Even though I was terribly attracted to my husband and enjoyed sex tremendously with him, I wasn't really attracted to other men in that way at all. I've had one crush on another man in my 17 years with my husband, but I have had many crushes on women. I even dated a few while in my early twenties.

Now that I'm single the mere thought of even kissing a man (who is not my husband) gives me the heebie jeebies. When I consider having sex with another man I feel like vomitting. I don't know if these feelings come from my husband's betrayal or from the fact that I'm much more attracted to women than I am to men.

Currently I'm corresponding with a woman in Fredericton, NB, the place I'm moving to in a few weeks. I'm very excited about meeting her. She's gay, in the closet, but looking for Ms. Right. I don't know what will happen (who does?), but I'm hoping that somewhere along the line I figure out what I want and what I need to be happy again. I also have a profile up on a heterosexual dating site. I've met one man who is very nice and could be a fantastic friend....we really clicked, but I'm not attracted to him sexually.

Now, about finding men attractive? There are men who really turn my crank (Hayden Christensen as Anakin Skywalker in the latest Star Wars movie - oh baby!) I'm not kidding. I have a pic of him on my wallpaper on the computer. I love the guy who plays Warrick Brown on CSI. HELLO!!! BUT... I started watching CSI because I loved the actress who plays Catherine. I started watching L&O: SVU for the actress who plays Olivia Benson. I watched Buffy the Vampire Slayer for bad girl Faith. There are a lot more ladies out there whom I find attractive than there are men.

I was married to a man with whom I spent almost 17 years of my life. Am I bisexual? Am I lesbian? I just don't know at this point. Ask me again in another 17 years.

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I like how everyone is honest about their positions, and took the time to elaborate on them. 

Nicole, I understand your feelings very much about not wanting to be labelled. I also understand what Dandy is trying to say about the necessity of having certain labels. I was always a very private person, and even kept my own sexuality to myself for a long time. I never came out to my family or friends. I did not see the point if I didn't believe in labels - that was my original position. But it can get really lonely at times, and I think you can continue to challenge the "conventional" definitions of a label. That is the only condition I have given myself for being willing to let bisexuality stick to me like white on rice. I will not let anyone set their standards on me, except me and myself alone. I am also willing to be open to others' ideas of what works for them, and not let that stop me from using a grain of salt for myself.  Registering in this forum is truly a solid step forward for me, as you might see.

kahloeyes (admire the artist lady myself, too!), one thing occurred to me that you might be talking about having very clear boundaries after reading your very insightful posts. I think that works very well in hand with honesty. I thought you were writing most of your posts for me! Heh heh. You certainly have a knack for writing and having a wonderful kind of thoughtfulness with clarity. My fondest compliments.

Boundaries. Verbalizing them makes a whole of difference, and maintaining them is definitely a plus. That is part of honesty I respect very much in myself and others. Dishonesty and lack of boundaries will compound a problem, no doubt. I admit that I have a hard time with people being dishonest with themselves and with me - I like to know where I stand and where they stand. I assume dishonesty is often asociated with bisexuality merely because bisexuality represents a certain sense of dichtomy with negative connotations to it (either you are with us, or you are against us!). Only problem is - I don't buy into that particular brand of integrity. I can create my own, thank you.  Now what?

Fellow forum members, I do welcome you to know me better, and vice versa. I won't bite. Not even if you ask. Heh heh. I'm not that kind of cannibal, y'know.

Bad jokes aside, just because I am married to a man doesn't mean I have stopped being attracted to women nor does it mean I want to sleep with every woman I clap my eyes on. I am feeling that the "biphobia" is an insidious problem, because it is VERY easy to make the bisexual person a scrapegoat just because a gay or straight person have a hard time in terms of finding a partner romantically. I've struggled with this for a long time, and guess what? I am still bisexual. I'll never be straight and I'll never be gay. I'll never be happy with someone else's standard, except my own.

I am honest with my husband, and he has always known what is going on. He has accepted this, and he was very pleased that I have been honest with him. I am also pleased that he is one of the most uncomplicated men with an inclination to be a kind-hearted man who is extremely supportive of what I do with love. He does not see it as cheating on him - only being dishonest will be cheating to both of us. He is not interested in an open relationship, but is okay with me having a little dish on the side as long as I do not lead my FILF dame on from day one. I wouldn't mind being someone else's dish, namely my best friend's. *sigh* The attraction was definitely mutual, but that was never meant to be...that is another story.

But I digress - to each one's own to create and maintain one's own boundaries and integrity! 

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It is so sad that there are so many prejudices even within the gay and queer communitty. There is a certain comfort in being able to put a name to yourself, to being able to say this is what I want and I am not alone. But there is no need to hate other people because they don't want the same thing! I'm sorry anyone has to go through that.

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 What she said....... TY Julia that is so true !!!!! I am what I am. And I'm very honest about it with all the beings I encounter. I don't really think I leave a "Wake" behind; but I definitely leave an impression with people. 

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It is so sad that there are so many prejudices even within the gay and queer communitty. There is a certain comfort in being able to put a name to yourself, to being able to say this is what I want and I am not alone. But there is no need to hate other people because they don't want the same thing! I'm sorry anyone has to go through that.

You can say that again...Reading this forum is a bit scary at times.

I read once somewhere that" We fear what we don't understand and hate what we fear."..I think it's more a case of we hate the fear.

I grew up durning the 70's. A time of freedom of choices to the excess. I knew I was bi at the age of 13. I was rebel enought to not fear openly exploring my choices. When I married at 20 my mother was so happy I got over that lesbo stuff..I had to explain to her that I was never a lesbian and that I didn't get over anything..I still found gals sexy. I find guys sexy..I just happened to find a guy who I fell in love with and found him sexualy attractive enought to commit to him.

My longest relationship has been with a woman, who I love deedply but have never been sexually attracted to. Even if I had been attracted to her I never would have had sex with her anymore than I would have had sex with may male friend whom I love..I was in a committed relationship.

I never hid my sexuality from my family (including children) or my closest friends . The odd thing is I find more acceptence in the straight comminuty than I do in the gay community, whom I have lived and worked with my entire life.

I hunt , I fish , I trap, I drive big boy toys most of the time, I cook, I garden, I bore children. I wear jeans and tee shirts, I wear highheels, grow my nails long, keep my hair short. pluck my eyebrows and curl my lashes. I feel sory for people who fear that.

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