no longer active member

Racism in the lesbian community

Hey out there.I'm new to computers in general,but I am tired of trying to meet other women in the conventional way. What really bothers me is people judging who you are based on skin color. We lesbian women are just as guilty of this as anyone.I love sistahs and hope to meet one I can settle down with.Anyone had luck on here? Women here in N.O. are really racist,or very ghetto or both.Sorry if I offended anyone,Im just trying my luck on here.The last girl I dated was married;so it didnt work out.Any help would be apprieciated. ONE HUMAN RACE. domino

Share this post


Link to post

Peace Domino...It would be more than wonderful, if we lived in a society that was not totally based on skin color and race issues...Within the gay and lesbian community however...the greatest misconception is that...because we deal with homophobia, in all areas of our lives...this should then allow us to be more sensitive to other people's struggles...from my experience...that is not the case at all... In order to deal with the racism that I was put under, by white lesbian women...I have learned to build my own circle of black women who work, are sexually intimate and who deeply love one another...doing this saved me alot of tears and frustrations....this is just the way that I learned how to keep my sanity and stay active in my community...I hope that this helps somewhat....

Share this post


Link to post

Mmmm, I don't know. I haven't seen racism in the lezzie community yet. Interesting concept though. Oddly, I'v only had serious realtionships with white women, which has always lead me to belive that there wasn't such a thing. How could there be?

Share this post


Link to post

Dees, believe me it's out there, yet I'm in the same boat as you where I have long term relationships with White womyn but I don't ignore the fact that racism is alive in the lesbian community. You would think a group of womyn who are already considered outcast in main stream society would learn how to embrace one another as we are all up against the same struggle. I mean it's hard enough being a womyn, add being a lesbian, now discrimination from people who are in the same boat. Sad isn't it, but true. So, what do we do about it? ...But just in case they are reading this section I want to know if any of the White womyn have their own view on this issue and is not afraid to share as I am very curious about what they think.

Share this post


Link to post

I think it is easier to accept what you are, because you live it and understand it. It is also easier to not accept someone who is different because you don't understand that difference.

I have had the misfortune of being treated like garbage by folks in the black community (I'm white). I worked in a job in a large metropolitan area that is one hour from my home (which is much smaller). I had numerous people treat my rudely. Many times it had nothing to do with skin color, but (I think) sometimes it did. Sometimes I encountered the I'm-black-you're-white-so-you-owe-me attitude. I am not trying to be rascist, but this attitude does exist. I was brought up to believe we are all human beings and have to live on this planet together. We all have the same needs, and many of the same desires. No one should be treated like crap because of something like skin color, religion, etc. Do NOT treat me with the same attitude you would not like to be treated with. It goes both ways. If you want respect, then act like you deserve it.

I respect only those who deserve my respect. If I do not know you, I will give you the benefit of the doubt. If you treat me like garbage, I will lose respect for you, regardless of your skin color, sexuality, age, etc. Life is too short for me to bother with anyone who can't get with the program and treat others decently.

I do realize that there is frustration among minorities because there is still descrimination going on. And I do know that, historically, the groups that stand up and loudly protest are the ones that make the most progress. But I do know that you can both stand up and loudly protest and treat others (in and out of your group) with respect and decency.

I did not enjoy the treatment I got while in this job. I was just trying to do my best and help out anyone who needed it. There are people in EVERY group, (black, white, whatever) who act like jerks. Those people are an embarassment to the group as a whole, especially if people with limited exposure to that group see mostly the jerks. Also, unfortunately, there are pockets of these jerks in various communities. In my neck of the woods, most of the black people I know or encounter are like anyone else. They are curteous and reasonable. In this larger city, many (not all) acted like they had a big chip on their shoulder. They thought it was acceptable to be rude, just because they could be. I have seen the same thing in white communities. I used to live in a tiny, rural community. Many of those white people were intolerant, redneck, racists. They made me want to puke.

We are all human beings living on this planet together. Many groups have endured horrendous treatment at the hands of another group (slavery, concentration camps, the poor treatment of women throughout history, the discrimination against gays, etc.) We must both look past this, yet never forget it. Look past, because we can get caught in a cycle of feeling sorry for ourselves and forget that we can pull ourselves up and out of a bad situation and to fight against anything that keeps us down. Never forget it, so it does not happen again.

And I don't care what group you are from: There are those who whine that they are being oppressed and can not get a fair shake at life. They mope around in the muck they call life, never trying to move up and out. How is it some people with a shitty existence can pull themselves up and make something productive of their lives, yet others (sometimes in less shitty circumstances) can only whine and want handouts? You see it in all kinds of groups (the poor, whether black or white; some Native American tribes; younger people; older people; it doesn't matter). Sure, there's a certain amount of stuff that's going to happen no matter what, but YOU are still in control of how your life turns out. It may suck and be a lot of hard work, but it will be worth it in the long run.

Wow, did I rant? Lol. I do get tired of people who play the victim. You only get one life, why ruin it by acting helpless? Do something and be proud of yourself. I keep pulling myself out of crap holes. My efforts are not easy, but they are worthwhile. One more crap hole to go and I'm pretty much done.

Yeah, it does suck that those in the much-descriminated-against gay community will act hatefully towards others of a different race. C'mon, you know how it feels to be denied certain rights and treated like hell---don't treat others the same way you don't like to be treated.

Share this post


Link to post

Roo, I don't think it's about people playing the victim, because when a group of people have been oppressed for so long and even today still struggles with subtle oppression, it's not playing the victim, you are the victim. Racism in this community sucks, and yeah I wish everyone was more open minded, but I have learned to be thankful for the ones who are open minded and hope that others will see the light.

Share this post


Link to post

This is an issue that I deal with in my work, and I am going to have to concur that yes, racism is alive and well. I am white, and will say, in regards to the victimization identity, that I disagree strongly with that. There is such a thing called 'stratifications' in society and to pull oneself up one must have the Resources to pull oneself up, and when those Resources are controlled, unequal access to, limited, hoarded, etc., then for many its not possible to pull themselves up, no matter how much they strive, and yes, many strive.

The Native American Indians are still having their lands raped, pillaged, misused, e.g., nuclear waste in Nevada, conflicts over sacred burial grounds, etc.

The African Americans and Latinos are the majority in our prison systems, majority who receive death sentences, the majority to suffer at the hands of outright and blatant police brutality (here in my state alone, we are fighting three cases of police brutality against African Americans and Latinos...in fact, not too long ago, an African American couple was shot in front of a store, and the man wasn't even charged, he was white. He should have been charged and he should have been held accountable to the full extent of the law.

The Arab community (and this one really irks me to no end) is being not only targeted but are being arrested, and not only arrested but held without legal representation, for undue amount of time, and it has been stated by both the government agencies (not only stated but CONDONED) and by Human Rights Watch groups that torture is common place.

The Latino community is still more apt to be exploited employment wise, immigrants who are legal, are more apt to be underpaid (sometimes illegally below minimum wage), refused worker's comp if they get hurt and if they protest they are threatened with deportation and I know personally because I work with these cases.

The Poor in this nation, including whites, especially Homeless, have absolutely No civil rights whatsoever, they are Criminalized, arrested for being homeless, told they can't sleep anywhere, can't use the restroom, if they attempt to form solidarity and build their communities then they are threatened, harassed, their personal belongings taken from them, threats of losing their children and often times do (and I won't EVEN go into the numbers of child abuse in the foster care system). And yet, we Still refuse, and still tolerate Regentrification of neighborhoods that are blue collar, working class (in all racial communities) and housing cost are ridiculous. Rent in this nation is more than Half of income. For someone making minimum wage, they aren't going to make it, especially if they are supporting a family.

Education tuition has been voted to go up in this nation and many colleges are privatizing, meaning only the Rich will be able to afford college...multicultural studies, women's studies, etc., grants have been cut, etc., from colleges.

Military recruitment is higher in poor and minority neighborhoods with the promise of how great the service is, however, statistics Prove that upward mobility in the service is not as easy for minorities as it is for whites.

Asians are reported to work in sweatshops, the women having to undergo pregnancy checks and being locked in for hours and hours, not able to leave, etc., within our Own US borders.

and we Wonder why there is anger in these communiites, among these peoples, we Wonder why they are Rude, etc.?

Yes, other groups have suffered horrendous crimes against humanity, hate crimes, etc., and several, lets take the Japanese Comfort Women, still have not received reparations, and Reparations for African Americans in this nation, which I feel is Due to them, because they did create the wealth and power of the South, is an issue that majority of whites won't even discuss much less consider...

and we wonder why they are rude?

Its called White Privilege and Class Privilege (sp) and its not only a problem, its increasing. If we really want to deal with racism then we are (whites) are going to have to stop skirting around the question of priviledge (and not saying that all whites have benefited from racial oppression the same way, sure, they haven't, and sure, immigrants from Europe too were mistreated, etc., but add up the tally and in time they all benefited/assimilated, etc [excluding those few individuals who did stand up and in solidarity fought racial oppression].

This however, is too, tied into the whole labor movement in this nation and why I think if we are going to address race then we have to address class, because the two are interlinked. And its been the issues of race and class that has been the thorn in the side of feminists, labor groups, homosexual rights, etc...

as far as the respect goes, sure, I can understand, even relate, however, its not an issue of simply 'moving on', how can one move on when the justice is denied that is rightly theirs? Judith Sklarr wrote an excellent piece on the question of justice (I'll find it and post link here).

And we have to know, that our nation Thrives on the exploitation of other nations, particularly nations of color, look at where our goods, those cheap goods, etc., are made? And the conditions they are made under...and the regimes that not only oppress freedom but terrorize the people into submission, eg., when they form unions and groups to fight for decent treatment, living wages, etc...

and we wonder why they are rude?

And is it that they are rude or just that they see all of the above, and that words of anti-racism is just not enough....same goes for classism. And too, what many don't realize, is that by refusing to really see, and I mean really see, we not only perpetuate a system and the social stratifications that oppress minorities, women, poor, poor nations, etc., we perpetuate a system that oppresses us too.

Something to think about...

Share this post


Link to post

And I don't care what group you are from: There are those who whine that they are being oppressed and can not get a fair shake at life. They mope around in the muck they call life, never trying to move up and out. How is it some people with a shitty existence can pull themselves up and make something productive of their lives, yet others (sometimes in less shitty circumstances) can only whine and want handouts? You see it in all kinds of groups (the poor, whether black or white; some Native American tribes; younger people; older people; it doesn't matter). Sure, there's a certain amount of stuff that's going to happen no matter what, but YOU are still in control of how your life turns out. It may suck and be a lot of hard work, but it will be worth it in the long run

You speak of power but to be honest, without unity from all people who struggle, not a damn thing can happen. Blaming the poor, or suggesting that "the victims stop whining, and work harder", means that you have lost focus of who the real enemy is. Those MEN in blue suits who say that you can't marry who you want, or who use to say that if you got pregnant you have to have a baby, are the same men who make it hard for people to really live as humans. And when you lose sight of the enemy, you have already lost the battle.

I have to speak my piece before I fall out of my mind. You have stated in your argument Roo that some people need to just work harder, and this hard work will be their benefit in the long run. Please explain to me, how this goal can be accomplished when (a) people of color in america today still get paid less than the average white american, (B) race discrimination on the job is so rampant that "the victims" as you say, have to take low-end jobs to support their families resulting in inadequate health-care, and the mis-education of their children, and dangerous working environments. and last but not least © the jobs that do offer decent pay are often taken by people with higher educations and of course more money...

It is important that people not assume that poor people of color only have to "stop playing the victim, and work a little harder", in order to establish a better life in this country.That theory or that belief is the result of a capitalist, imperialist mindset, which blames the poor for being poor and NOT major corporations who make billions of dollars off of POOR PEOPLES LABOR.

Behind every counter, in every factory, in every basement, in every nail salon, there are people who work in order to SUPPORT their families, and these people GET NOWHERE, but hope that with their hard work...their children might have a chance. Which for the most part never happens. There are families who have been in this country for more than 3 generations and have nothing to show for it, even though their contributions continues to make this land very rich.There is a reason why socialists and communists parties advocated for unity and the slogan "workers of the world unite", suggests that if we remove humanity from struggle there will never be ANY progress. Roo, believe it or not "the victims" that you speak of, keep this world moving, and until we can recognize them as HUMANS who struggle under a capitalist regime, we have lost our essense as womyn and as lesbians...

because not to long ago, womyn who loved womyn were persecuted and burned at the stake. And womyn were told, that it is NOT their right to have abortions, or equal rights next to men. Womyn were told to "STOP COMPLAINING. Work hard and you can be a good housewife"!!! "Be submissive, you are weak, I am strong, deal with it". So why now in the year 2005, a womyn who says she is a lesbian, takes the same attitude as dick chenney, regan, bush and all those other assholes, I don't know, maybe one day I'll find out what the hell is going on :roll:

Share this post


Link to post

blacklesbian, you're right! It's like I said before: you can accuse someone of playing the victim when they really are the victim. A lot of people have lost sight of who the real enemy is and instead turn to the racial/ethnic groups and tell them that it's their fault they can't get ahead or accuse them of not trying to better themselves. I don't know when this fight/struggle is going to end but I hope it ends soon :evil:

Share this post


Link to post

:evil:

we gotta get a grip, 'cos they are comin' for us....there's a perfect poem that would fit in this thread...don't have it with me now....but, i will come back and post it....

Share this post


Link to post

Sure, there are many injustices in this country. Racism is alive and well. Certain groups of people do get paid less and offered fewer opportunities. Many have come a long way, but do have a ways to go, still. I am not saying to ignore the people who are responsible for all this; that would be stupid. What I am saying is that people need to stop whining about their situation, get together and fight for a better country. Plenty do, but many do not. It's those who do not that I speak of.

How is it that, in some underpriviledged communities, one kid will resist the temptation of gangs, drugs, doing poorly in school, etc. while one of his peers will succumb to them? Same group, same neighborhood, same descrimination, same temptations, different outcomes. I am not imagining this; you read about it, see it on t.v., or (as in my case) you know someone who has pulled himself up. Can everyone in the group do this? I don't know. Probably not, but more need to at least try. Did one kid have better opportunities than the other? Most of the time, no. It comes down to attitude. The successful kid's family may have encouraged him. Or he may have decided he did not want to be a drug dealer at 30 or on welfare with 7 kids by the time he's 26.

What ever happened to our pride, our gumption, our striving to be the best we can be? Sure, there are obstacles, but some people DO NOT EVER EVEN TRY! Maybe it's a lifelong fight, but to either not try, or to try once and give up, is really not an option. Many priviledged Americans (not all of them, however) don't give a damn. Or they want to keep minorities down. They need to be dealt with, but whining is not the way.

In certain groups of people, learning is not encouraged. Matter of fact, being good in school can make a kid a target from others in his own group. That's descrimination within the group, and that needs to be addressed. If a group is to pull itself out of the muck and fight for equality, they must be united, educated, and willing to put in some hard work. Sure, after decades of being pushed down and told they are stupid, it is hard to want to be educated. Education is equated with selling out, with disgracing the group by trying to be better than it, with being a white, priviledged person who holds the group down. Education should, instead, be looked at, not as selling out or being "white", but as being smart, having hope, having a chance at a decent future. The leaders in these communities should (and sometimes have) try to impress upon the youths to better themselves, and education is a start.

I also take issue with certain individuals in minority groups who treat me (or anyone white) like trash. Stop thinking that all white people are out to get you. Many of us are not. Many of us would be pleased to help. If a black man (for example, it could be any minority) treats white people like garbage because he feels that all white people are the cause of his misery, is he not guilty of the same hatred and attitude he is accusing white people of? If you spend your days hating an entire group of people, you are missing the point and wasting your time. Know who the enemy is and target them. Some possible starting points may be: the government, big business, the wealthy, and those from these minority groups who have made it, but ignore their brothers and sisters left on the front lines. Do keep in mind; there are many in these groups I just mentioned who are trying to help. So, don't think they are all out to get you.

It is not an easy battle and many won't make it beyond poverty, but whining does nothing except annoy those around the whiner. You can either whine and wait around for reparations, or you can try to make a life for yourself. Am I saying that certain groups do not deserve reparations? No. I am just saying that it does not seem to be happening anytime soon, and to wait for it is to just throw your life away. Make something of yourself (or at least try), and fight for what you think is owed you. Just sitting around whining will get you nothing.

Maybe I sound harsh, but life is tough and not fair. No one is going to hand you anything just because. I don't live in some dream world; I've had to pull myself out of a hole of shit. Sure, I am white, but I am female and gay. I know it's not quite the same as being black or Latino, or whatever, but there are problems nontheless. There is always some reason why I can't do this or that. There is always someone telling me I can't. I have people (relatives included) who tell me to forget education and just get a job. I don't listen because I want so much more out of life than a dead-end $7/hr job at a fast food place. I know I can make a difference, but that chance will not be coming if I wait for it or expect someone to just give it to me. I gotta go out and get it. Remember: we are gauranteed the pursuit of happiness (not the actual happiness, however), but many of us don't take up that pursuit or let someone take it from us without fighting back. Many feel that they are entitled to sit back and have someone else give them their happiness.

People are trying everyday to improve the system, but it has a long way to go and needs all the help it can get.

For those of you who see just one thing and run with it---I am NOT saying the poor are responsible for their situation. I am saying that if you complain, expect a handout, and do nothing, then you will always remain poor. Many rich don't care about the poor and can't be bothered helping. The poor are not responsible for being poor, but they are responsible for trying to change what keeps them poor. Just as the gay people, as a group, need to get together to fight for equal rights. If we gay people don't do it, who will do it for us? If the poor don't unite and fight, then who will do it for them? We can keep blaming others (rightly or wrongly) for our plight, but that does not change the plight. The ones who have the greatest interest in moving a group forward are those who are part of that group.

Share this post


Link to post

Sure, there are many injustices in this country. Racism is alive and well. Certain groups of people do get paid less and offered fewer opportunities. Many have come a long way, but do have a ways to go, still. I am not saying to ignore the people who are responsible for all this; that would be stupid. What I am saying is that people need to stop whining about their situation, get together and fight for a better country. Plenty do, but many do not. It's those who do not that I speak of.

I don't think you realize that people have been fighting for better opportunities for unprivilleged youth and minorities and majority of the people who are fighting are the ones who live through it everyday, but when no one is listening what more can you do? Are they supposed to go to radical extremes and blow up a government building just to shed some light on their issues? Or should they hold the president hostage until their demands are met? Extreme measures dont have to be taken in order for people to realize that someone is in need of a change. Everytime a child picks up a gun, or a person agrees to sell drugs, or a person drops out of school I see it as a cry for help and that's what it is. For some people the life they have now is the only life they see and it is very hard for them to better themselves when shit is the way it is in this country in regards to minorities. I'd rather hear people whine about their situation then blow something up and injure people just to get their point across.

What ever happened to our pride, our gumption, our striving to be the best we can be? Sure, there are obstacles, but some people DO NOT EVER EVEN TRY! Maybe it's a lifelong fight, but to either not try, or to try once and give up, is really not an option. Many priviledged Americans (not all of them, however) don't give a damn. Or they want to keep minorities down. They need to be dealt with, but whining is not the way.

In this country it's all about the MPR (Money, Power, Respect) which the white executives of corporate america currently hold the keys to change things. They dont care how much you try because things really are not going to change unless they intiate the change. For a lot of minorities thats the reality. They know they dont hold the keys needed to make a change in this society.

I also take issue with certain individuals in minority groups who treat me (or anyone white) like trash. Stop thinking that all white people are out to get you.

I encourage you to live the life of a minority in this country or sit down and talk with an elderly minority and ask them how things were when they were kids and how different things are now. I'm sure they'll tell you that the shit really hasn't changed too much.

Many of us are not. Many of us would be pleased to help. If a black man (for example, it could be any minority) treats white people like garbage because he feels that all white people are the cause of his misery, is he not guilty of the same hatred and attitude he is accusing white people of?

Well I think you just complained about the treatment you received from minorities because you're white. You think it's wrong and you should not be treated that way, right? Well that's how minorites feel. One Black man/woman, or Hispanic man/woman, etc does something wrong and the entire group of people are labeled for that one wrong deed. Only white america is perpetuating their bad deed of racism and hate for all minorities on a daily basis and no one is telling them that they're wrong. I wonder why :roll:

If you spend your days hating an entire group of people, you are missing the point and wasting your time. Know who the enemy is and target them. Some possible starting points may be: the government, big business, the wealthy, and those from these minority groups who have made it, but ignore their brothers and sisters left on the front lines. Do keep in mind; there are many in these groups I just mentioned who are trying to help. So, don't think they are all out to get you.

I think the day there is a serious change in this country will be the day when racism, sexism, homophobia, and all forms of discrimination and hatred are gone, but I highly doubt that will happen this life time.

It is not an easy battle and many won't make it beyond poverty, but whining does nothing except annoy those around the whiner. You can either whine and wait around for reparations, or you can try to make a life for yourself. Am I saying that certain groups do not deserve reparations? No. I am just saying that it does not seem to be happening anytime soon, and to wait for it is to just throw your life away. Make something of yourself (or at least try), and fight for what you think is owed you. Just sitting around whining will get you nothing.

Well you're right whining gets you no where, but as you can see taking action gets you no where either. Before you get annoyed by minorities whining around you try to be more understanding because as far as they're concerned you got it made in the shade. You dont have to go through what they do on a daily basis you dont have to deal with indirect or direct discrimination because of the color of your skin. Just be thankful that you're not in their shoes. I think everyone needs to work together for a change, but by all means please do not stop complaining because just maybe the more you complain the sooner someone will get annoyed enough to take action.

Share this post


Link to post

I am 100% color-blind....I get "ill" w/ the red-neck frame of mind....Just cause our "covering" might be different, we are still all human beings...

Sweetly.....~lady~

Share this post


Link to post

Unfortunately, racism seems to cross all geographic, socio-economic, educational, sexual, and gender lines across the board. In fact, since the Equal Opportunity Employment Act established a prefferenc point hiring system, even the government has proved to be prejudicial. Why do national minorityies receive more hiring points than local minorities? This just promotes ghetoization of certain areas. The whole system needs to be zip coded, with the prefference points going to the minority in that neighborhood. Thus, if a black person applies for a job in a predominantly white neighborhood, she would receive the minority points; and if a white applies for a job in a predominantly black neighborhood, she would receive the minority points. That would provide a much more "equal opportunity" hiring system. And what about Jews (less than 1% of the national population, receiving no minority points)? Moslems (less than 3%)? Bahai (less than 1/2%)? What's that all about? Just because religion doesn't show on the skin, ther is no religious minority??? The whole system needs to be re-worked. We need to provide equal education and job preparation, and hire the most qualified person for the job. Truly color-blind hiring practices, based solely on qualifications for the position, will go a long way toward reducing prejudices in both directions!!!!

Share this post


Link to post

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now