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Nature vs. Nurture

Today I had a wonderful conversation with three straight guys. We discussed gay issues ranging from marriage to if a child is born gay. (They didn't know I was gay when we started the conversation by the way. I thought they wouldn't censor themselves if they thought I was straight). We all agreed that it could be hormones that one is born with could be off balance but there was another argument that said that tramatic events in a child's life may change the way that child looks at the world and even the opposite sex. This is when I brought up the point that when I was eight after my dad died my mom's psychology teacher told her I would either become a slut or a lesbian. (This is when I told them I happened to become the later). Could this be true? Could the fact that I had such a strong female role-model change my sexuality? I think it's a little of both but I'd love to hear from other lesbians. What's your life experience? If something was different in your life would you be? Thanks for any feedback.

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Hmmm this is an interesting topic, however when I apply it to myself I'd have to say I was born this way. The first people I was sexual with were women and even when I attempted relationships with men they never went further than a casual friendship. My first lesbian relationship began when I was 8 and lasted until I was 16. When I think about my childhood all I can ever remember is that I was attracted to other women. I know other women who share the same thoughts and believe they were born this way. In terms of having children I do want 2 or 3 someday, but how I go about having them, well that's another story. My friends and I used to joke that I would pull a Madonna move like the movie The Next Best Thing--have a baby with my best gay male friend. Who knows :roll:

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I would have to say i was born this way too.My first kiss with a girl was when i was 11 and from then on i always had feeelings for other girls but would never do anything about it :( . I think that is also why i got married to try and put those feelings behind me(but never could) but also i think fo make myself seem normal to other people,which i suppose now is stupid because i have wasted a good few yrs trying to be what other people define as normal. :(

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Wow, you two started early. My first relationship was when I was 17. I finally admitted to myself that I was a bisexual when I was a freshman in high school, but soon after I decided that I'd much rather be with a woman than a man. Now I just say I'm a lesbian. I just don't like guys in any other way than friends.

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I think most of us were born this way, but I do think that certain experiences may influence certain people to become gay. I know so many gay women who were molested as young children. I often wonder how many of them would have been straight had it not been for their traumatic experiences.

Also, women in prison take on other women as partners. This is an unusual situation, however. Many straight women who have homosexual affairs while in prison, revert back to being straight when they get out. I guess you take what's available. I'm sure some do it for sex, some for affection, some for protection.

Looking back over my life (hindsight is 20/20), I believe I was born gay, only it did not manifest itself until I was 33 (I'm almost 40 now).

I had relationships with men, but had a couple of slight, short-lived attractions to women. These women were friends, so I thought that was a natural occurence in some friendships.

I wasn't into having foreplay with a guy and, when he was done, I felt disgusting if he didn't just get up and leave. I didn't know why at the time. I think I was gay, only it was a sort of half-formed gayness. It didn't become full-blown until I was 33 and had a crush on a female instructor I had. I have never looked back. It's as if a big lightbulb went on in my head and someone yelled "this is it; this is what you have always been missing".

My attraction to women is more intense and romantic than any attraction I had for any man. I want to take my time with a woman, and like it if she doesn't jump out of bed after.

My only question is: why did it take me so long to realize this? I have a loving, supportive family. I always knew if I was gay, they would be fine with it (and they are). I also was not the kind of person to worry about what others would think of me if I liked women instead of men. Oh, well. I am happier now and that's all that counts.

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i think for me, i have always been gay, it just took a while of internal struggle to be able to admit it to myself, and once i was able to do that, coming out to other people was easy. for as long as i can remember, i have been around gay people, both men and women. i had my first crush on a woman when i was 14, but i thought that was normal, being around women who were affectionate to eachother and obviously cared very much about eachother.

i am in the process of ending a 4 year marriage to a man that i care alot for, but have absolutly no sexual desire for. and it just got to the point that i could not deny the feelings, desires and fantasies i have about women. i count myself fortunate that my ex is a very undersatnding man and has not taken this to an ugly place, as can be common for a lot of married women who realize they are gay.

anyway.... that's my two cents.... i'll stop rambling now :)

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I think that for women, it can be either nature or nurture. A lot of people are born gay yes, but I think that if a woman has a traumatic experience in her past, especially perpetrated by a man, then it can be a natural thing to find much more comfort in women. For both emotional and sexual satisfaction.

As for me. I questioned whether I was a lesbian many times, though I always knew that wasn't the right word. It just never felt right. I was also attracted to men. However, I did always feel different than I thought maybe I "should."

A year ago, I came out to my family as trans and that definitely fits. And, I know that I was born this way, since it manifested itself early on (probably around 6 or so at first) I just never had the vocabulary to put with my experience, or the little push to realize it for myself. It's funny, because I saw the movie Boys Don't Cry with my mom in like, 11th grade and thought "I'm so jealous, I wish I could just move to a random town and live the rest of my life as a man" And I thought these types of things my whole life, and yet never put the word "trans" to myself. Mostly because I didn't know it was possible. But now, I know, and well the rest is history.

It's weird, as someone said above, it's like a lightbulb going off. And then you look back and think, man, why did I never see if before?!

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To you, pheonix99, I am trans too. To the rest of you, it happens as it happens. As a young child I would have never have even dreamed, let alone believe that it may ever come true, that I would be where I am at now. One (sort of) successful lesbian relationship under my belt, and have had many women-seeking-women in the online dating community interested in me. It is what it is, though. It is part nature, part nurture. Pheonix, you are pretty. I was always too, so I didn't make a good boy, no matter how hard I tried to fool people. Many still made mistakes. And, yes, their mistakes did influence how I felt. Had people have never made that mistake, I might still be married. It would be 38 years now. ...But they did make that mistake, and I was "pre-determined" in both appearance and the way I thought--in my brain-- to be susceptible to that influence. In the end, none of all of that matters. Who you are now is what matters. how you got here into the lesbian world matters, whether tramatic or otherwise. I barged my way in, then fucked my way in the rest of the way. The girls said I didn't belong, ...till I earned enough lesiban merit barges to rival the best of the best. We are who we are, whether having been fortunate to have been born with a vagina or not. To all of you out there. Let your heart not be hardened by your past and your prejudice. Allow yourself to feel. Love is not about fear.

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While I understand that a traumatic event could make a person very uncomfortable with, say men, I don't believe that people "become gay" because of it. I mean really why do we sleep with women? Is it because we are nauseated and frightened by men and they drudge up past traumas in our minds? For me? No. Mind you I was never molested or anything but I like women because they are beautiful and smart and funny and they feel right in my hands (and always have). I came out when I was 14, but I always knew I was attracted to women. So there it is. I sleep with women because I like them not because I dislike men.

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It's probably some mixture of both like everything else. In some it may be more nature in some more nurture. What scares me is the fact that this debate is still going on. There are no debates or discussions between people sitting around and chatting about why some people are left handed. There are debates about why two people who grew up in the same house became so different, lets say one is admired and loved by everyone and the other is a homicidal maniac. We need to figure out why the one became a homicidal maniac so we can fix those people. Fix them, that's what it always leads too. No matter what the answer turns out to be, the vast majority will not change their minds. If it's genetic then the anti-gay side will want pre-natal testing and ways to change genetics early in pregnancy (which they are getting closer to the time when people can pick out their childs genes). If it's not then the pro side will say it doesn't matter, which it doesn't.

I understand the curiosity of wanting to know why we are the people we have become today, but when you break it all down we're all just human. And I am perfectly fine not knowing whether genes or my environment had a bigger impact on who I've become.

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I think nature and nurture are both involved in how we evolve in anything, not just who we find attractive. That being said, I think nature was pretty powerful for me though some may try to argue that it was nurture.

growing up, I was all over the place, occasionally seeing my biological mother but not having any real relationship. I have 2 brothers, one which was adopted to another family before I was born and one who I saw only a handful of times growing up. I was raised by my grandmothers mother and spent some time in other homes and in foster care. I am a lesbian and I have absolutely no problem admitting that (though it did take a while for me to admit it). I was not raised around anyone in my family yet I turned out to be a lesbian, both brothers are gay (including the one who was adopted out and wound up being raised in MO) and my mother was FTM. Any dount that nature has something to do with it? Not for me. Is it possible that I had a basic understanding of what my family was like and picked up on the normalcy of it? Also possible but not as likely.

I think nature and nurture are involved in some way but nature is more powerful, at least for me

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(edited)

The "nature/nurture" argument is moot, as far as I'm concerned. To debate this is to give in to the hetero-thinking that being non-het is possibly something to combat.

1) born *gay = "find a way to locate the gay gene to prevent/"fix" it

2) nurture = "find what "not" to do to end the likelyhood of non-het kids"

Lose/lose. Am I the only one who sees this?

My take? It's none of anyone's business what two, consenting adults do. nor who they love, nor who they marry.

Cheers!

*non-hetero

Edited by Geekomatic

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I have to agree with Geekomatic. The whole argument is a moot, lose/lose thing. There's a psychological theory that sexual abuse as a child creates both sluts and gays. I've spent several years in therapy, and I've had to switch therapists several times because of these theories. Both are pretty much BS, but aside from that, if I had to choose which side I'd be on would be nature. When I started the psychological healing process, I realized that I never was attracted to men at any given point in my life. The straw that broke the camels back for me was being rejected by the one person I thought would accept me for me more so than anyone else. Everyone's been rejected by someone at some point in their lives, but I had deeper issues before that. If there were anything in my past I'd change that might have changed how I discovered my sexuality, it'd probably be coming out to my best friend in 4th grade. If I never come out to her, I'd have never got the 30 minute lecture about sexual evil(also BS), and I'd have never tried to force myself to be straight to a degree that classifies as delusional. Either way, if the gay gene is real, I'd rather it not be found for the mere fact that it would bring about a hate group whose entire goal would be to eradicate anyone that carries the gay gene so it doesn't get passed on. If it's nurture, I'd rather they never figure out what environmental stimuli causes homosexuality because said hate groups would make that stimuli illegal or try to smother it out as quickly as possible.

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I believe its nature because I have felt this way as long as I can remember (gender fluid, but more boy than girl). I have never been into girl stuff (hated dolls loved toy truck and cars, never like to shop, not interesting in shoes, will not wear makeup or dresses, and never suffered from PMS). Hell, maybe I am a boy. Though I do need someone to save me from the scary spiders and bees (I scream like a little girl then) and I don’t like watching sports (I do like a good soccer game but that’s it) and I will watch a chick flick (don't tell anyone). There is little girl in there somewhere that sometimes gets to come out and play, she is like a unicorn :sofa: and there she goes again being shy. ;):P

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