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Why are m to f TGs more attractive to men than women???

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Men seem to flock to me and I have no interest in them. On the other hand starting out presenting as a woman and then revealing being TG I am left in the dust with a "good luck" if I am lucky and "how dare you" if I am not. I can not believe that I was born with this body that is only in my way of first being "all" that I wish to be and then finding my mate. It is not that I do not "pass" well. It is just that I don't have the right chromosomes.

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Men seem to flock to me and I have no interest in them. On the other hand starting out presenting as a woman and then revealing being TG I am left in the dust with a "good luck" if I am lucky and "how dare you" if I am not. I can not believe that I was born with this body that is only in my way of first being "all" that I wish to be and then finding my mate. It is not that I do not "pass" well. It is just that I don't have the right chromosomes.

I'm not sure the issue is so much that we're more attractive to men, per se, as that men are more apt to fetishize us.

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we are safe for them to somewhat acknowledge their bi desires. plain and simple. they want a dick but not a macho bod wielding it.

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It is true that I am flattered and as you say love being feminized by men I have no sexual attraction to them (except very briefly experimentally where I found that I was not gay but a WOMAN revealed by a man. That began my quest to tranasgender and I soon found hormones on line, a support group, electrolygist, therapist, make up artist (who gave me a crash course in feminization and clothes shopping, etc. ,etc., etc.---In fact I would persue her if she was not married and presumably heterosexual) Eventually I also got an endo to monitor my hormones even though I still find them cheaper over seas.

Returning to the topic. I still love women but hate the rejection on lesbian sites because I have not had my GRS as yet. I guess I am impatient but I would so much love to find the woman of my dreams. So till I travel to Thailand this summer I really do not seem to qualify as man or woman and that is unbearable. Not that I wan to be a man but I feel so close and yet so far away from being a woman and having a real chance to pursue my love life. I do hope that the "right" body parts but the wrong chromosomes will not stand in my way.

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Sherry:

I seem to be encountering much the same problem. It seems that genetic women just don't take us seriously enough to consider us. It seems that women consider us to be freaks of nature, as though we were born with one leg or one eye or something like that. Sympathy, and maybe friendship, we get, but not that special relationship! We have to prove ourselves like no other women do! Well, good luck in Thailand....and after.

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I am so sorry to hear you get negative responses from women! How unfair! I am a woman, and I think TGs are amazing and courageous and sexy! I hope very much that you have found someone very special! Best wishes!!!

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Quote
It is true that I am flattered and as you say love being feminized by men I have no sexual attraction to them (except very briefly experimentally where I found that I was not gay but a WOMAN revealed by a man. That began my quest to tranasgender and I soon found hormones on line, a support group, electrolygist, therapist, make up artist (who gave me a crash course in feminization and clothes shopping, etc. ,etc., etc.---In fact I would persue her if she was not married and presumably heterosexual) Eventually I also got an endo to monitor my hormones even though I still find them cheaper over seas.

Returning to the topic. I still love women but hate the rejection on lesbian sites because I have not had my GRS as yet. I guess I am impatient but I would so much love to find the woman of my dreams. So till I travel to Thailand this summer I really do not seem to qualify as man or woman and that is unbearable. Not that I wan to be a man but I feel so close and yet so far away from being a woman and having a real chance to pursue my love life. I do hope that the "right" body parts but the wrong chromosomes will not stand in my way.

Wow this has effected me for far to long now. and no matter that I did have surgery last August all legal documents now changed my gender to female yet no matter what in most men's eyes as well as a lot of the females I am still a (Freak of nature) Forever a transsexual. Because I was not born the gender that I am now. I cannot change the fact that I was born the wrong gender. Yet I feel from both sides of the gender issue the problem of fitting in with men when they find out they say a quick good bye and the same with females at least all the females that I have so far encountered. it hurts it is painful. There is nothing that I can say or do that will ever change the fact that I was born the wrong gender and had to do something about it. yet where do we now fit in? It seems we do not fit in anywhere and it is all very sad.

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Not to be rude but it also helps to pass very well.

like having an adorable face.

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What it is, darlin'--it ALLOWS them to FLIRT WITH the side of every last one of us, that is gay, WITHOUT having to ADMIT such interests to THEMSELVES--MUCH LESS, anyone else!

whatcha gotta learn to do is, just shrug it off and don't GIVE a rat's left bahoogie WHAT the IDIOT pop. thinks--I personally, am nigh onto 15years

post-op---I can remember SOME guys who DID admit to me, that they didn't like what I was doing, because it HIT A LITTLE TOO CLOSE to home!

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I'm sorry to say but I personally would not even consider a mtf in a sexual/relationship way unless they went through the FULL transition because, hey, I'm a lesbian so it's only natural that I like pussy and curves, breasts, soft skin, etc. Not dicks, hairy bodies, flat asses that mtf still have. Also, the transgenderd demeanor still comes across as fake and glamorized to feminine stereotypes like a drag queen. Simply a man dressed up and prancing around as a female stereotype.

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I think the main reason why males are drawn to mtf transsexuals is because it gives them a chance to play gay without really being gay. There's a lot more of a stigma for men to be gay than women.

Myself? I find myself drawn to people between the sexes, a transgendered female who doesn't intend to have the surgery. I'm more drawn to a feminine brain than a wholly feminine body.

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I am pansexual and gender fluid (more male acting but I do have a feminine side) so its really what's in the mind and soul I look at not the genitals. I would make a connection with some one that is male to female or female to male (surgery or not) and I would never require someone to go through something like that (it looks painful), unless they wanted to and I would support them and bring them tea. As long as a person isn't a macho idiot, I am cool. 

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Wow. Enlightening conversation! Unfortunately, I think that Pinkreem's sentiments hold true for most lesbians. In addition to physical attraction, I'm guessing that many women shy away from the public attention. I must admit, whenever I see at trans person, I can't look away. I try not to stare. That's rude, but, I'm really fascinated by this. A  trans person is a people watcher's dream. *Hope that's not offensive* Having once identified as bisexual I'm very attracted to ftms although I've never actually met a trans man in "real life."

 

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As a trans woman who doesn't find almost anything offensive, I find some of the comments here offensive.
For one thing, the thought that trans people are just hairy men prancing about. A lot of trans women actually do look like women well before they get any surgery whatsoever. A hairy body? That can be fixed easily enough with electrolysis. A flat bottom and chest? Both are fixed with hormones.
Really, some people need to learn the difference between Transgendered (still totally looks like a boy or a girl but really is the opposite), Transexual (actually looks like the gender they are on the inside), and a crossdresser (someone who just dresses up like the other gender).

The mention that mtf trans people seem to go off the deep end with acting like a girl? That's because people who are more boyish are just going to keep on being a boy, and people who are neutral are just going to stay as a boy, but people who are more femme on the inside, like me, are the ones who are actually going to go through with something like this.

Hey Sicca, how about if people just wanted to watch you? I don't want people to see me (I don't want to have to see me, even), so how do you think that I feel about someone like you making some sort of a sick game out of me? Am I just some animal at a zoo for you to watch and enjoy, some kind of new reality show? How about all of the people who were killed just because they were trans, are they not people worthy of pity or something?
Just something to keep in mind; most trans people have already been broken, have already been told that their entire life is one that shouldn't be, that who they are is wrong. These are not people who should be treated as just something for you to watch, but as actual people, as they are.

PS: My booty is fantastic.

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Venellian said:

As a trans woman who doesn't find almost anything offensive, I find some of the comments here offensive.
For one thing, the thought that trans people are just hairy men prancing about. A lot of trans women actually do look like women well before they get any surgery whatsoever. A hairy body? That can be fixed easily enough with electrolysis. A flat bottom and chest? Both are fixed with hormones.
Really, some people need to learn the difference between Transgendered (still totally looks like a boy or a girl but really is the opposite), Transexual (actually looks like the gender they are on the inside), and a crossdresser (someone who just dresses up like the other gender).

The mention that mtf trans people seem to go off the deep end with acting like a girl? That's because people who are more boyish are just going to keep on being a boy, and people who are neutral are just going to stay as a boy, but people who are more femme on the inside, like me, are the ones who are actually going to go through with something like this.

Hey Sicca, how about if people just wanted to watch you? I don't want people to see me (I don't want to have to see me, even), so how do you think that I feel about someone like you making some sort of a sick game out of me? Am I just some animal at a zoo for you to watch and enjoy, some kind of new reality show? How about all of the people who were killed just because they were trans, are they not people worthy of pity or something?
Just something to keep in mind; most trans people have already been broken, have already been told that their entire life is one that shouldn't be, that who they are is wrong. These are not people who should be treated as just something for you to watch, but as actual people, as they are.

PS: My booty is fantastic.

Vennellian,

Kudos to you and your fantastic booty. (Not sure why you made that comment but I am a butt woman so I'm all for that).

The truth is that people like to observe things that are different and or attractive. When I'm walking down the street holding hands with my woman people stare. I don't always like the attention but I'm aware of it and have gotten used to it. If you saw a trans woman walk by, I'm sure you would look at her from head to toe .... be honest. In fact, you probably would stare longer as you would be taking notes. We all do it. It's not a sick game, it's just human nature. Some people might actually argue that if a person is dressing like the other gender, then he or she actually may want to be looked at. Don't tell me that a man goes through all of the trouble, makeup, and wardrobe to look like a woman just to be ignored. I can't imagine what it's like to feel like you're trapped in a body that's not your own. Can't even wrap my mind around that. But, I don't think that most of us in the LGBT community see you as misfits at all. I think that we see you as courageous for daring to be who you were meant to be. Yes, we're still going to look because that's what women do ... but it's not because you're some animal at the zoo. Now, if trans women want to date cis women then there needs to be more open dialogue about how cis women experience trans women and vice versa. Respect and attraction are two very different things. I've noticed that trans women get pretty offended when cis women are open about their experiences with trans women or their attraction to them. Continuing the conversation is the only way to understand the thoughts and feelings on both sides.

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Guest PinKreem said:

I'm sorry to say but I personally would not even consider a mtf in a sexual/relationship way unless they went through the FULL transition because, hey, I'm a lesbian so it's only natural that I like pussy and curves, breasts, soft skin, etc. Not dicks, hairy bodies, flat asses that mtf still have. Also, the transgenderd demeanor still comes across as fake and glamorized to feminine stereotypes like a drag queen. Simply a man dressed up and prancing around as a female stereotype.

Thank you for putting that out there. As much as we might hate stereotypes, they still exist, and I think it's important to understand them. 

And while I haven't actually seen anyone else say this, I have already internalized it, and it is THE reason why I'm not very active on this site.

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Sicca said:

Vennellian,

Kudos to you and your fantastic booty. (Not sure why you made that comment but I am a butt woman so I'm all for that).

The truth is that people like to observe things that are different and or attractive. When I'm walking down the street holding hands with my woman people stare. I don't always like the attention but I'm aware of it and have gotten used to it. If you saw a trans woman walk by, I'm sure you would look at her from head to toe .... be honest. In fact, you probably would stare longer as you would be taking notes. We all do it. It's not a sick game, it's just human nature. Some people might actually argue that if a person is dressing like the other gender, then he or she actually may want to be looked at. Don't tell me that a man goes through all of the trouble, makeup, and wardrobe to look like a woman just to be ignored. I can't imagine what it's like to feel like you're trapped in a body that's not your own. Can't even wrap my mind around that. But, I don't think that most of us in the LGBT community see you as misfits at all. I think that we see you as courageous for daring to be who you were meant to be. Yes, we're still going to look because that's what women do ... but it's not because you're some animal at the zoo. Now, if trans women want to date cis women then there needs to be more open dialogue about how cis women experience trans women and vice versa. Respect and attraction are two very different things. I've noticed that trans women get pretty offended when cis women are open about their experiences with trans women or their attraction to them. Continuing the conversation is the only way to understand the thoughts and feelings on both sides.

Thank you Sicca!

I recall from a few years ago (as a male), I would look at ALL the women (or almost all...). Men do that. We can argue about whether it's social conditioning or hormones or whatever, it doesn't really matter why.

But the key point is that women are visible. Women are seen. (Until a certain age.) Men have the privilege of invisibility. And I realized very early on in my transition that I would be giving up that privilege. The upside is that now I get to wear clothes with WAY better colors and styles! And I get compliments on my outfits! And I give compliments too! It feels great to be noticed!

But one of the best things about transitioning is that I am no longer perceived as a threat just because of my gender, so women talk to me WAY more often now, and that's AWESOME!

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Hi Kerin.

You know, I've never thought about the invisibility factor of being a man ... the ability to be just another face in the crowd. That is a lot to give up. But yes, being who you were meant to be trumps all of that. Men are definitely perceived as a threat; women are more easily trusted compared to men, although my experience has been that men are more forthcoming than women. Women lie to themselves which is far more dangerous than the lies that men tell.

I always assumed in ignorance that trans women would be more attracted to men. It was perplexing the first time I was hit on by a mtf. The funny thing was .. the thought of dating a trans person made me question who I was AGAIN and I wasn't ready to open that pandora's box since I had it all figured out. Now I just try to remember that gender expression and attraction are two separate categories. I can be attracted to anyone on any given day. I don't judge it ... I just go with it.

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I think what a lot of lesbians don't realize  when it comes to mtf transsexual people is that most of us can't afford the surgeries we want, especially if we want to look the best. Stuff like ffs, and vocal surgery are very expensive, and if you want the best results sometimes that requires going overseas to either, Thailand, or South Korea. 

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Guest PinKreem said:

I'm sorry to say but I personally would not even consider a mtf in a sexual/relationship way unless they went through the FULL transition because, hey, I'm a lesbian so it's only natural that I like pussy and curves, breasts, soft skin, etc. Not dicks, hairy bodies, flat asses that mtf still have. Also, the transgenderd demeanor still comes across as fake and glamorized to feminine stereotypes like a drag queen. Simply a man dressed up and prancing around as a female stereotype.

Though replying to your post PinkReem, this is actually for all to read to.

I'm an M2F, wish I wasn't but thats what I am and I make best of it.

I don't like men at all sexually, tried a lot of times to make sure but just not me, mainly for same reasons as a lot of lesbian women say, I hate hairy bodies, dicks, etc etc.

The problem with the trans community and the stereotypical crap they portray is not always their fault.

CD's TV's yeah, they go out their way to be OTT and grab as much attention as they possibly can, but for TS's like myself most of us do try to blend in as much as we can, but here is the kicker.

I don't know what it is like in the rest of the world, but here in the UK this is the crap all M2F's have to go through if they not got the money to go fully private.

For Example: I volunteer at my local foodbank, every single woman that volunteers there comes in tracksuit bottoms, T-Shirt, trainers, sometimes very low heeled shows, no makeup, just everyday run of the mill casual clothing.

Now everyone considers them totally normal and totally female.

If I go in like that, then I must be male, even if all those same items of clothing are made for female thats not considered female clothing for an M2F.

If I went to my Doctor like that and said Doctor I'm an M2F and need help, straight away I would be told forget it, you're not dressed female so P-Off.

I would have to go in a short skirt, high heels, tights/stocking, so much makeup that even a total moron would look and go ha ha tranny, and stand out so bad and draw so much attention to myself just to prove that I want to be female before anyone would even think ok they got gender issues and it needs looked into.

Even then, I would get no help with hormones, no help with laser hair removal, nothing at all for a minimum 2 years of being like that to prove I can hack it as a woman.

And contrary to popular belief, Lesbian women and bi women are actually far more open minded to us than anyone else, closely followed by so called straight men and bi men.

The ones I've had most problems with in past have been gay men and a few straight women,

So to give a 2nd example before I finish this post to sum things up:

I can walk into a lesbian bar, dress down, put on some feminine jeans, low heeled boots, simple blouse, put hair up a bit spiky and some nice dangly earrings, make sure I'm clean shaven, bit of foundation to hide shadow and all the girls just presume I'm a butch lez. Never ever ever had a problem in over 15+ years.

Go to my doctors or anywhere else for help and thats not acceptable, so what you girls consider normal and acceptable, most others ya need help from don't.

And thats why a lot of M2F's look and act so fake, because most times we really really don't want to act that way, but to get any kind of help we are forced to.

Exceptions to all rules of course but most times thats how it goes here.

But I always found with lesbian women anyway, being honest from start always worked out well, be it to end up with a good friendship and sometimes more.

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Lesley Lesley,

Your post is by far the most informative post that I've read so far. I had to read it several times. It explains so much. I often wonder why mtf's are so over the top with their femininity. Any less and some just couldn't pull it off. Makes total sense now. Thank you for sharing all of that.

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Sicca said:

Lesley Lesley,

Your post is by far the most informative post that I've read so far. I had to read it several times. It explains so much. I often wonder why mtf's are so over the top with their femininity. Any less and some just couldn't pull it off. Makes total sense now. Thank you for sharing all of that.

Most welcome sweetie,

If ever I can be of help explaining stuff please feel free to ask, no matter how personal it may be, knowledge is what helps gain understanding for all :)

 

xxx

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LesleyRebeccaC said:

Most welcome sweetie,

If ever I can be of help explaining stuff please feel free to ask, no matter how personal it may be, knowledge is what helps gain understanding for all :)

 

xxx

You may have just opened a can of worms because I always have questions.

Question number one: LOL ... I have an acquaintance who is mtf trans. She's always asking whether she passes for a woman. I tell her, "of course you look fabulous" much like I would respond to an overweight friend asking me "Does this dress make me look fat?" I feel as though it would be unkind to burst her bubble. Am I doing the right thing? I know that trans women are sensitive about fitting in and being stealth and all. A part of me sees it as a safety issue ... like when mothers tell bi-racial boys that the world will always see them as a black man. What are your thoughts?

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Sicca said:

You may have just opened a can of worms because I always have questions.

Question number one: LOL ... I have an acquaintance who is mtf trans. She's always asking whether she passes for a woman. I tell her, "of course you look fabulous" much like I would respond to an overweight friend asking me "Does this dress make me look fat?" I feel as though it would be unkind to burst her bubble. Am I doing the right thing? I know that trans women are sensitive about fitting in and being stealth and all. A part of me sees it as a safety issue ... like when mothers tell bi-racial boys that the world will always see them as a black man. What are your thoughts?

Now that is an awesome question:

Now this is just my own personal mentality and i'll give a bit of background behind it so it gives you something to judge for yourself.

21 years ago now when I first decided to go to Manchester dressed up to explore that side of myself, I kind of followed the crowd and used wigs and tons of makeup and to be honest I looked like sh*t, just no other way to put it.

Now this I did for a while, after a few times going out, was out one night with my now ex Tgirl partner, and we met this lovely male/female couple.

Now the girl was like wow, you two look fab all dressed up. really showered us with compliments, when I went to the bar, the guy from the couple said to me, please don't take this the wrong way but, if you lost the wig and the makeup and stayed quite natural, I'd just presume you was one of the butch girls that was coming from Vanilla's.

Now back then I wasn't as calm and matured as I am now, and at first I did take it quite personal, but since he was really nice about it I thought ok next time will try it and go into a Lez club.

My partner at the time was not happy, as I got a lot of attention because everyone just thought I was a butch girl, so thanks to that guy being honest with me at the bar, I've never really looked back since.

My advice to your question would be, offer your friend a dressing up session, or to do her makeup etc or teach her something, it be a great way of laying hints about things without creating an atmosphere.

Next question :) lol

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Hi Lesley,

I'm going to take your advice. I'll have to wait for the right opportunity. My friend, Roxi, sees herself as a makeup artist and often tries to give me advice on how to be a woman. I'm a minimalist when it comes to makeup. I know that TS don't always have that option. I find it funny that you went to a Lesbian bar called "Vanilla's."

I have another question which is kind of a comment. I really don't know how to articulate it ... So, I read a lot of posts that refer to mtf's passing for women. I hear the term "stealth" a lot. The way that I see it .. most mtf's don't Truly pass as women. I mean, something is always a little off .. there are always exceptions but for the most part it's hard to disguise a male body unless that body is petite with really soft features. It seems that these women put so much energy into trying to convince society to accept them and see them as women. I began to ask myself "what does it mean to be accepted?" Does it mean that we all have to agree. Let me give you an example. Tiger Woods is probably the best golfer that has ever played the game. Most people wouldn't dispute that. But Tiger Woods doesn't consider himself "black." He considers himself some kind of Asian mix. He coined a term for it but that word escapes me at the moment. Anywho, the world sees Tiger as a black man although he does not identify that way. Does that mean that Tiger is not "accepted" by society? I'd say that he was accepted very well until his womanizing ways got exposed. My point is that, a lot of people use the word "accepted" when they see themselves differently than others do. What place should third party perspective play in our lives? Now back to the trans thing. I could be wrong, but the issue of being seen as a woman seems just as important as being treated with kindness and respect, in the trans community. I read so many posts about how mtf's suffer emotionally because they're not seen as real women .. especially by the lesbian community. I don't mean to sound insensitive but I feel like the trans women should enjoy their new bodies and take solace in the fact that they are able to live as women despite being born in the wrong bodies. People are going to see what they see. We are all conditioned to see things a certain way. We can't change that.  I'm just saying .. changing other people's perspectives is a hard battle to win.

Lesley, you seem very comfortable in your own skin. Is that because you are able to pass as a cool dyke? Do you find that mtfs are really sensitive to what other people think of them? .. moreso than ftm's. My friend is constantly asking me how she looks .. and I tell her "who cares?" She cares ...  a LOT. I worked with a trans woman a few years ago. She worked in the hospital and was constantly meeting new people who expressed a variety of emotions when they first saw her. She didn't pass very well but was such a strong woman. She was always pleasant despite the constant stares from her patients. I had a lot of respect for her. Now I feel bad about bringing up this issue of acceptance but what I've learned on this site is that if one person has an idea, many others have had a similar idea that has not been expressed.

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