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Labels and Their Place in the Dating Dynamic

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I dunno.. maybe this is just me, but I've always been a femme interested in butch women.. Unfortunately, I've never had the pleasure of being involved with one. I always find myself with femmes, like myself..

Now, don't get me wrong. I find nothing wrong with me being with femmes. They're sexy, cute, fun.. but I would simply just love to experience a relationship with someone who is butch. I'm sure, in their own way, they are all of the above, too. (And short hair, I find, is very attractive). 

Alas, is there anyone one out there who finds themselves in a similar situation.. or even a totally different one? Whatever it may be, feel free to voice it here. 

<3K

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I can't say I've ever felt any attraction to any butch women (haven't met many though, so I can't say it will never happen). But, I really am into femme women.

I'm not too picky, but I definitely have a preference for feminine women.

Heh, dunno if this was the type of reply you wanted, but there ya go.

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I think it depends what you consider as a 'butch' these days. Straight girls think I'm butch but a proper butch would laugh in my face if I suggested I was butch. I think a lot of it is the attitude rather than the look - and I meet so many people who mistakenly call themselves femme just because they have long hair but who are so aggressive and swaggering and predatory that they are far more masculine than any real butches I've known.

So surely all this depends on what YOUR personal idea of what makes a butch?

Short hair doesn't mean someone is butch - which is the mistake a lot of people make. Just as lying on your back like a dead seal during sex doesn't make you femme (just rubbish in bed). 

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I think it depends what you consider as a 'butch' these days. Straight girls think I'm butch but a proper butch would laugh in my face if I suggested I was butch. I think a lot of it is the attitude rather than the look - and I meet so many people who mistakenly call themselves femme just because they have long hair but who are so aggressive and swaggering and predatory that they are far more masculine than any real butches I've known.

So surely all this depends on what YOUR personal idea of what makes a butch?

Short hair doesn't mean someone is butch - which is the mistake a lot of people make. Just as lying on your back like a dead seal during sex doesn't make you femme (just rubbish in bed). 

This cracked me up! I totally agree on this. I look like a bull dyke when you first meet me but I'm a hairstylist, so I don't really fit into the mold of butch except for the short hair and the men's clothes. lol.

The concept of butch or femme is completely based on your own opinion of what you percieve yourslef to be.

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I have enjoyed reading these reponses. I agree that short hair does not a butch make, nor long hair a femme make. I like the masculine aura in a female body that the butch/tomboi type exudes. This is what I ask the Universe for every night when I am out looking at the stars:

I want a Handsome Butch Prince...strong...with a courageous and good heart and spiritual soul. Intelligent...employed...and mentally healthy who will love me so that we may live happily ever after all the days of our lives.

I am new to Lesbotronics...so a friendly hello to all my new friends here! Big femme smile....

Kat

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It's funny how some women are looking for femmes and other butches. I just had an experience I can't forget. I decided to answer an ad and after a couple of emails and picture exchange, we started to talk over the phone. She prefers femmes and unfortunately I do not resemble nor act like one. I am labeled as a butch. Anyway... even with her preference... we continued to talk over the phone and eventually our curiosity empowered us to meet after a few days. When we first saw each other, we didn't quite admit it to ourselves, but we were not each others' type. However, we had dinner and to my surprise, we actually hit it off. After dinner, we decided to go to a Karaoke bar for some entertainment and cocktails. As the evening evolved to a new level, we got very intimate with each other. We went home our separate ways, but continued to see and talk with each other. The following weekend, we spent a very romantic evening together. I felt as if we were the only people that existed. The whole world could have fallen apart and the only thing that mattered to us was the pure love we felt for each other. To my bewilderment, I fell in love with her. After two years of being separated, I was prepared to love this woman; who I barely knew at the time. A few days has passed without seeing each other and the next thing I knew… she is attracted to another woman; who by the way is femme. She completely broke my heart…

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Shaved heads,a walk with attitude, strong fingers, eager to please, I am all for a butch!

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yeah I am your stereotypical femme; I'm in a sorority, I like my high heels, big earings and low cut shirts... but I'm overall deffinetly more the agressor, and I guess that makes me butch??? if we're saying that butch is an attitude more than a style. I'm cute and flirty at first, but in the long run I like to be the one in control. I like to be the one calling the shots, I'm scared to not have the power and to be weak. I deffinetly have a lot of pride and am extremely stubborn in a machismo sort of way.

There's just something about a butch girl though.... I was once asked by one of my straight friends, why if I like girls do I go for girls that look like guys. How the hell do you explain that???? It's like trying to explain why you may prefer brunette's over blondes... There's something about the rough exterior, though of a butch chick. (I agree with the other comment about shaved heads! but backwards hats and chicks in ties are sooo my weakness!!!!) The level of confidence that they have, that "masculine" vibe of knowing what they want..... but that underneath it all, when you're standing their naked, you are still a woman. You still have the soft skin and the sensual curves that every lesbian desires

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I guess I have the preference of just wanting to be with a femme looking butch. I just want to be controlled but i don't mind taking the control of the relationship. I myself don't really identify with any stereotype of a lesbian. I'm just kind of here, i have my days when my looks are more femme, but deep down my emotions are more butch.

On another note related to this topic, but not on topic with the rest of what i wrote. My gay friend and I joke that he is the femme that i need and i am the masculine that he needs.

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There's just something about a butch girl though.... I was once asked by one of my straight friends, why if I like girls do I go for girls that look like guys. How the hell do you explain that???? It's like trying to explain why you may prefer brunette's over blondes... There's something about the rough exterior, though of a butch chick. (I agree with the other comment about shaved heads! but backwards hats and chicks in ties are sooo my weakness!!!!) The level of confidence that they have, that "masculine" vibe of knowing what they want..... but that underneath it all, when you're standing their naked, you are still a woman. You still have the soft skin and the sensual curves that every lesbian desires

Wow...I have never heard it put quite so well! I also adore the butch girls...the swagger, the confidence, the cocky smile, the muscles...have I mentioned the muscles? LOL...throw into that the tattoos, piercings, and how she amazing she looks in a tie and dress shirt....truely, I am a puddle on the floor 

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i think the butch/femme dichotomy will undergo debate and scrutiny in the queer wolrd for centuries. i don't know if labels create or bind at points. i've found flirting with my own sexual/gender identity to be adventuorous and amusing. i've always tried to encompass androgyny because it is what i am most attracted to and i blieve androgyny can be beautiful in the feminine and/or masculine form.

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Ok so I got into this huge debate, and when I say huge I mean huge. My friends and I were out at a lesbian bar in Philly. My friends are lesbians like myself who identify as femme and who only date/have relationships with femme women. A few women who indentify as Butch approached us, wanted to buy us drinks, dance, exchange numbers, possibly take one of us home that night. My friend responded that we dn't mind having Butch women as friends but nothing more as her attraction is to other femme women. Well lets just say Pandora's Box was opened because they started telling us that "it's femmes like you who ruin the whole lesbians dating dynamic. Everyone knows that Butch and Femme women go together and that two Femmes together or two Butchs together is unheard of an a joke." So I guess I'm wondering what others think. Do you think the two must be together in order to maintain a dynamic in the lesbian community?

Personally, I think lesbians can date and have relationships with whomever they like whether she indeitify as Butch or Femme. One of the women even said that two Femme women together is like seeing two bisexual women experimenting together, which I took great offense to. But let me know what you think ladies or if things are different in your town.

~*~Peace~*~

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OK, here's my own take on what happened to you and your girlfriends. For one thing, they were rejected and their reaction was one way to save face. Sometimes people react by taking an offense stance to cover their own embarassment/hurt ego. Secondly, I find it ironic that they are trying to put labels on relationships, when you think about it. That is ridiculous. It's almost like a hetero saying homosexuality ruins the hetero dating dynamic. Sexuality is a spectrum with many shades of gray and everyone has their own preferences or what does it for them. You have as much right as anyone else to feel attracted to whomever you want and frankly, I have wondered what's up with all of that "butch must be with femme" thing also. And, I tend to prefer femmes myself 

PS: Isn't it interesting that even within a subculture with a history of rejection from the mainstream, there are supposed "norms" and "rules."

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I have been ruminating on this for the past few days. I even asked a few friends what they thought of me and they had agreed "soft butch" (one was straight). Then I asked my 21 year old daughter and just about fainted when I heard her say "you are more on the femme-side, mom." The neat, tidy label I had given myself was torn to shreds! Then I started thinking, who in the hell ever defined these labels and do I want to subscribe to them? I believe that they ultimately originate from the sex roles we learned from straight society. Is there a dictionary definition in Webster's for these terms? I am too tired and lazy right now to look. I believe, however, that I am safer speaking from who I am in the small details, rather than assigning myself a global label, which may or may not fit someone else's definition (i.e. daughters, friends, love interests). For example, I like wearing lipstick, but I hate purses. I thought I was supposed to be a boy when I was 10 years old, but I do not feel the need to have a sex change operation. I have passed for male (that was fun!), I can pass for a sexy "femmy" woman, or I can be androgynous, simply because I CAN. However, I find myself attracted more to the latter (both), rather than the former...but then again, maybe the right gender-bending woman has not crossed my path yet. At worst, the Butch-Femme continuum can limit, box, and hamper; at best it can be a fucking BLAST to PLAy with! 

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I've been reading with interst the whole label thing on this forum and I've come to the conclusion that we label ourselves as much as the rest of the world does. Label don't make us who we are. Labels are some one elses perception of us. If you let yourself be boxed in with the "I'm butch and will only date a femme" or vice versa you are limiting youself to only meeting or dating a certain type of person and I think you're missing out on a world of exploration and variety and getting to know people for who the truely are and not the label you perceive them to be. personnally, Idon't identify anyway except as a woman who loves women. I don't have a type and I have dated all kinds of people. I've mangaged to learn a little about my self everytime. ( I just had this conversation with a friend). I am no ones usual type either. So try reaching out of the box a little the next time you meet some one who doesn't fit your label.

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I think just the opposite. Labels are something you can apply to YOURSELF to quickly describe who you are to the outside world. If you CHOOSE the label "butch who will only date femme," that is because you feel that you are butch, regardless of what other people might think, and you know that you are only attracted to femmes. That doesn't mean that you have to live with those labels for the rest of your life, or that some butch won't come sweep you off of your feet, but you can no more let yourself be put into a box without your consent than pigs can fly.

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I have been out since I was 17. 30 years And yes I have dated all types of women throughout the years. But, soon after coming out I had my first Butch/femme relationship. And I realized that I was much more attracted to and fit into the Butch/Femme dynamic. I label myself femme and that loves Butch women. Yes, I love all women but what I am truely attracted to is is Butch women. I love labels!

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Hmm... girlie girl, tomboy, soft butch, ultra femme, lipstick femme, bull dyke, biker bitch, hard butch, practical femme, classic femme, tweeners... the list goes on and on and on.

Then you have people, like me, where you need to come up with a whole new label, which happens to be a total lesbian oxymoron: a "jockette lipstick." I've also been called an, "Amazon Femme." But, my personal favorite is: a "Valkyrie." (Hey, at 5'9", I'm a small Amazon, I'd be part of the crew. But, as a Valkyrie, I'd be their queen!)

All those silly little labels. But, sadly, they do have their place, especially when dealing with description. If I were to learn that you were a soft butch, I would have a slight clue, as to the type of person I would expect to meet. Afterwards, I would have something to use to help describe the wonderful person I had just met.

On the other side of the coin; how many of us, strictly adhere to just one label design? For instance, I may bbe a femme, but I can certainly change a tire and I love sports.

More importantly, to me, it is not the label that matters, it is the heart of the person and how that person treats and respects me and others. Although I may say, "looking for soft butch", to be 100% honest, Ultra-femme to ultra-butch, it is not the label, it is the heart for whom I seek. The label is irrelavent, if it be the right person.

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A friend of mine (who is femme) met some one the other day on line (who is burch) and when they talked on the phone they found they had a lot in common until the gal my friend called asked the Butch/Femme question and when she didn't get the answer she liked, hung up!...No one likes to be sterotyped..I sure don't... but we seem to quickly steotype/label everyone that we meet..I guess it's human nature to sort out those people we like or are attracted to or are comfotable with from those that we don't like. beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I believe that we are all like facets of beautiful diamonds and that we need to keep our mind and hearts open to the real beauty in others and not just dismiss them because of a label (which might be wrong,)

Josy

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Labels. Every one is entitled to use ‘em or loose ‘em.

They can be helpful in some instances like when I need to read the ingredients of a product I intend to purchase or when a manufacturer warns a consumer of a hazardous situation.

In my opinion, there are no suitable labels for each and every one of us because no two humans are alike. Labels in a forum such as this are an instrumental tool designed to help others find an identity/relation in which they feel most comfortable using. It’s all in the eye of the beholder. What a shame the other lady hung up after finding such a lovely connection with your friend Josy, she obviously was not your friend’s type after all.

My personal choice is to not limit my self in a label since I am multi faceted and I can not understand some peoples’ prejudice associated with certain labels/words. Besides, I am very happy with who I am and how I am.

Peace 

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Whether, you are -butch,femme,gay ,straight ,bi,a man or a woman..fat or skinny..black or white..or anything else..we are all labeled ,someway or the other..but there are no right or wrong answer here...you are who you are, and like what you like..and thats just how WE ,as people associate with each other..and there nothing wrong with that.... Me, i'm a 40yr old, white- butch lesbian,who likes femme women..(or at least on the femme side)..but you can never really pick who you fall in love with or who you become attracted to...it just happens...i've been with butches and femmes...and i like being with femmes most of all...thats just me and what I LIKE.....So, if you were to describe yourself...without labeling....what would you say????...feel free to reply...

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Wow Ladies! I'm so pleased after reading this. I'm really diggin' the butch-love. Many other posts across the WWW put butch's down. Saying we're unfortunate looking, style-less, we WANT or are trying to be men... I don't want to be a man! Do i like my jeans to fall a bit below the waist? Sure! Does Friday night usually involve a button-down? absolutely. Are most guys jealous of my hair? You betcha, but i love my vagina!, i can out shop any femme. I can be an animal in the bed room, but i definitely like to be taken care of sometimes too. I'm just trying to be me, So thank you ladies for appreciating the confidence and the swagger.

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I am very rarely attracted to a femme, i am mostly attracted to butch. I don't know what it is about butch in the bed room...but damn there is definitely a difference!

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I consider myself femme butch. I'm an aggressor that changes my style of clothes daily. It depends on how I feel if I wear my heels or vans. Sexy blouse or t-shirt. I'm still me no matter what I'm wearing.

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i have to agree with the last comment i sometimes grow my hair out. but even then i still get a thank you sir maybe its the way i walk. i don't have much switch in my getty-up. but im into the more long haired tomboy myself that way i know i can have some adventure and mot worry about messing her new duds up.. on the forest floor.

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