lesbotronic

Hygiene is important. I can't date anyone smelly!

Would be subscriber says, "Hygiene is important. I can't date a woman without adequate hygiene. Or a woman who smells bad."

This one isn't nearly as bad as the anorexia thing (see previous in this section). But really . . . . we're just getting severely tired of reading this. And . . . it's really fairly dysfunctional, socially speaking. And mostly, the women that post this are involved with men, and looking for a "woman on the side." Which brings us to . . .

MISOGYNY!

Let's break it down.

Do YOU think YOU have good hygiene? Do you think YOU bathe often enough to avoid offending others?

Do you think most women you know imagine THEY have good hygiene? Do you think THEY think they bathe often enough to avoid offending others?

OR . . . do you imagine all your female friends might need some sort of wacky reminder from you to continue bathing?

Pretty much, ALL WOMEN EVERYWHERE imagine they have adequate hygiene. Whether or not you would agree, that is what they think. Just like YOU think YOU have adequate hygiene, so do other women.

Other than women who are unfortunately homeless and lack access to water facilities, ALL WOMEN EVERYWHERE imagine they have adequate hygiene.

If they thought they needed a bath? THEY'D TAKE ONE!! ALREADY! WITHOUT YOUR HELPFUL ADVICE EVEN!

So, what EXACTLY are you actually accomplishing by insisting that a woman you might date have "adequate hygiene?"

You're more or less suggesting to anyone that reads your profile that you already imagine, in advance of meeting her, that she might not have adequate access to water or suggesting that she's so stooooooopid that she might not already know that cleansing herself on a regular basis is a good idea.

And . . . that's your first impression, with another supposedly intelligent woman? That you think she might not know that bathing on a regular basis is a good idea? And . . . you don't think that's insulting?

Let's return to the misogyny thing. What if you were looking for heterosexual men to date? Would you put in your profile that they needed to bathe on a regular basis? Obviously, you'd hope they WOULD . . . but would you find it necessary to actually specify that in your profile?

Or might you rightly imagine they'd feel insulted and think you a TOTAL LOON for even feeling the need to say that? And, they'd rightly avoid you like the plague? We just can't imagine for a moment that a woman that put in her (heterosexual male seeking) profile that bathing was important would be the slightest bit popular. Nor can we imagine she'd even IMAGINE she would be. She'd know better. For MEN, that is, she'd know better.

Do you think gay men put in their personals profiles, "Oh, and hey . . . it would be a good idea if you took a shower regularly. Because I'm thinking maybe a lot of you gay men out there don't know how to do that because you're stooooopid, and . . . I'd like to only meet the gay men that actually DO know how to take a shower regularly. If you're one of those gay men who never EVER shower . . . you're not my first choice."

Um . . . NO.

This is misogynist BULLCRAP. Women saying this to other women is just plain nuts.

Stop it. Please. With sugar. You'll be more popular.

(including with women that do bathe, really)

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I agree that it is misogynist. Some women probably can't help falling into this trap as they've been "seduced" by the mass media into thinking it's a problem. I think the gender gap in hygiene products has been closing over the last decade or so, but there are still many more products marketed to women to help them become "hygienic" than there are to men. If you see all this advertising and you haven't yet developed any sort of critical eye toward this brainwashing, then you might tend to think women are somehow dirtier or smellier than men.

I agree that it is insulting, however. Also socially dysfunctional, at least if you're trying to date anyone clever enough to have already developed that critical eye.

I also agree that it's total bullcrap, and women should think better about other women (especially other women they've not even met yet and have no reason to imagine are smelly) and stop it already.

Don't know what ALL WOMEN are all on about when they say this garbage, but I think for maybe SOME of them it's some sort of defensive "shorthand" or roundabout way of suggesting that THEY have super duper hygiene. And they want any reading their profile to imagine that about them as well.

Otherwise, what else are we to think? That it's been a SEVERE problem for the women in question . . . that they kept on and on dating woman after woman that they found unpleasant to the nose? Such that they found it necessary to put something about hygiene in their profiles?

OK, maybe, but then why did they do that? Makes no sense, really.

I think I'm back to the mass media brainwashing . . .

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I would not, at first glance, have recognized a request for good hygiene as misogynistic until I read the original post from our erstwhile hostesses. However, I am grateful for having my consciousness raised. I also agree with Ramona that part of the problem could be falling sway to patriarchal propaganda in the big advertising machine. My own take is that this is a form of microagression - a seemingly small comment or action that in fact promotes or continues a bias or prejudice against a group.

My only experience making love with a woman (so far) was about 25 years ago and I have never forgotten how beautiful she smelled everywhere. I wonder if someone adding this request to her profile is really projecting her own ambiguity about the process - or maybe she just had a really bad experience at some point...

Anyway, that's just my two cents and I freely admit my oh so very limited experience.

Jeanne aka Buttercup

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I may be branding myself as an outcast here, but I can see both sides to this. I have met women who only bathed about once a week. In parts of California, for instance, there are areas where the cost of water is so high and the stress on conservation so great that people will not bathe every day. They sell antibacterial wipes in abundance but we all know that those are sub-par to a good shower. There are also the people who still enjoy being a part of the grunge movement, where it was stylish to walk around dirty and homeless-looking.

That doesn't change the fact that if a person is going to go out on a date and will have the chance to be close enough to another person that she can be smelled, it would be wise to bathe thoroughly. It is common courtesy and anyone who cannot comprehend that without being instructed to do so isn't necessarily worth the time wasted on making the request.

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(edited)

I can see that this is a mixed bag, after all it's kind of common sense to bathe regularly, both for your own health and because 90% of the species doesn't like being coated in their own funk. Putting that comment up as a note or requirement seems redundant and they should have known it could be taken as offensive. But, there are people out there who don't bathe often enough. We catch a wiff as we are passing them on the street, or rolling down the aisle in a store. For what ever reason, those people who wake up and go "Day three... shower? .... nah."

I think it is important to state that you have an issue with being clean, it's understandable considering we all know that women can smell bad too, because it can be a deal-breaker. But obviously that's something that will be discused at a later date if you're really worried about it, so you don't need to put it in with a list of requirements.

Edited by Tori_bird

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couldn't date someone with bad hygiene that's one the ultimate turn offs for me. I have slight OCD when it comes to tidying up and things being clean and their is nothing worse than people smelling bad ewww it's just gross.

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I had a different take on this.

Yes, having read tons of men's profiles and dated tons of men, you do actually have to request that someone show up showered and such. But like you said, the ones who show up that way don't realize the message is for them, so it does only make you look bad.

Hygiene can mean teeth, too... and bad breath. And I'm one of those people where if you don't brush your teeth twice a day, I'm not going to kiss you the way you like it. Some people are a little more grossed out than others, and I think that's okay to say up front. if that's a known issue. Because it's about bodies, it makes it more offensive than, I guess, "If you track your wet bootprints on my carpet" because it's just a behavior, but then so is grooming. I can see both sides.

Good discussion!

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I just want to preface my statement by saying that I love to smell good (that means cologne and everything) and I love when women smell good, too. But I think it is very offensive to assume that people do not keep adequate hygene by stating one's assumption in one's profile. Nothing says romance like jugment before trial (or a first date). And for the LGBTQIA community, especially, to judge others so readily (in any matter) is quite similar to the Pilgrims seeking religious freedom in the New World. Yes, they were fleeing religious persecution in England, but then they persecuted non-puritan religions in the colonies. Makes a lot of sense, right? It just seems inconsiderate and hypocritical. So I tend to lean toward the understanding that the idea of "good hygene" is not a cross-cultural norm and should not be subject to judgment or ridicule before further explanation can be delivered.

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Kind of interesting topic - the sense of smell is really important to our wellbeing but not acknowleged in western culture like the other senses. Health smells good, hygiene is not able to disguise illness or habitual abuse of the body for long. Hike a few hundred miles and you can smell the townies coming from a quarter mile away and artificial odors are nauseating. Body odor is a great way to tell if someone is well or not, and I think I read a study about heteros deciding if a potential mate could be compatible, I enjoy the scent of wimmin I love as much or more than the smell of the honeysuckle on the fence out front or the leaves in fall or the salt of the seaside air...

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This is utterly ridiculous! Granted, there are some hippie types that prefer not to bathe but really people that's not a reason to insult everyone else. Also, there are some that do bathe frequently and take pride in their hygiene but they just have a strong scent. If that scent bothers you then you shouldn't be with that person. There's no excuse for ignorant misogynistic bullshit.

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I use public transit and work at a public library. When a patron comes in who is "hygienically-challenged", we notice! This usually happens more often with males than women or other genders. As to why one should specify hygiene in a personal ad (WSW)? I can't really speak to the apparent prevalence of this but did have a friend who was utterly obsessive on the subject. I could easily see her putting that in an ad. It's not something that I would think to list as a requirement or request, though. I take good hygiene as given in those around me, one of the commonalities that should be given in a civilized society.

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Pussy should smell and taste like pussy...not roses or vinegar or any other heteromormative, chauvinistic products that are peddled to us because we are "unclean". Its all a load of crap! Shower on a reg, brush your teeth and keep it moving...gosh!

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I don't know, I may be with the "bi-curious" on this one. I have that primal 'come to me' response when a woman I love comes in from a long day, driving in the Texas heat, or has been out working in the yard, or working out. But that's fresh sweat on otherwise clean skin and hair. Sweat contains bacteria that grows and smells, if it's not washed away, which is probably more what the ladies who inspired the post were referencing. I've also had an experience of considering dating a woman until realizing that every time I was near her, all I smell was b.o. This was someone that I knew showered and washed her hair daily, but was a fan of the "chemical free/organic" deodorant; and it was not doing the job. I couldn't bring myself to tell her, if I wanted to, but she had to know. She was willing to trade odor for a lifestyle; and that was her choice to make. But it brought any consideration that I was giving to dating her to a screeching halt. I want to be able to breathe when I'm cuddling, slow-dancing, or being close to a woman, otherwise. It's a value to me; and I can see via the thread that people have differing values regarding this subject. That's okay. An elegant 'come hither' perfume totally works on me. I will. And I wear perfume, daily. When I lost my wife, I kept her perfume. I still remember what the top of her head smelled like; but when I'd forgotten how she smelled, I would take the cap off of the perfume and smell it. I'll still wear it, sometimes, though I can tell that it smells different with my body chemistry than it did with hers. I can't recall exactly how it smelled on her, but I can tell that it's close but not quite the same. And I shared that to say this: a clean woman still smells like a woman.

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I definitely agree with the first two posts, and I see a little bit where other people are coming from. I Love the smell of someone that smells like a person. Lol I kow thats vague but really I think most people bathe way too much, thus leading to a host of problems like Bill burr talking about being itchy in the winter and a date I once had with constant dandruff even though I knew they were clean. I kept thinking You literally (because they had straight hair) have oil, the stuff I buy from the store, that naturally moisturise you scalp. And on occasion I was low key tempted to oil their hair like mine that eats fricken oil. 

But back to the point. I actually prefer a person who uses next to no perfumes or colognes save special occasions if they want. You can tell so much from how things smell, taste and feel. lol I'm starting to realize why once I got categorized as a bohemian dyke. 

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I think a lot of times when people say something like "hygiene is important" they usually don't just mean take a shower. If addressed to guys it might mean "if your place doesn't have tp in the bathroom I'm leaving." Addressed to women I suspect it is a backhanded way of saying "shave and wear make-up" which is what makes it such a sneaky offensive thing. Like that is basic female hygiene, except for lesbians, and who knows which part is more offensive.

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I've been thinking a lot about this, as a hippie who doesn't wear antiperspirant I have a different take on it. I feel like when people say "good hygeine" they mean someone who smells of commercially manufactured perfumes. I also feel like it's a little bit ablist, as people who struggle with depression or physical disabilities may not shower as much. 

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Just my two cents worth here,

I can definitely see both sides of this scenario due to personal experience.

I may not bathe every day because I live alone so only myself to bother with, but I was brought up to believe if you're going to meet anyone, be it a friend, a work colleague, a potential date, or just going out in general to the shops, make sure to always bathe, be well groomed, as you never know whom you're going to meet or bump into and that first impression is what they will always remember you by.

Now I did know a couple of people in my past, one female one male, to see them at arms length they looked stunning, very prim and proper to look at, but right up close not so stunning,

Now the woman I knew she was like that a couple of times, then really got her act together and seemed to get herself sorted out. but because that first time we met was not so good, thats how I always expected her to be, and the guy never changed.

And times when doing profiles I've been temped to put something like looking for someone who is well groomed, but then I thought well, if they not it be last time we ever meet anyway so no real point in putting it.

So personally I wouldn't take offence at someone putting it in their profile, I'd rather someone be brutally honest and say exactly what they're looking for, then if something in there is just not me then I know straight off not to bother contacting,

Just to flip it a bit, many years ago when I was much bigger than I am now, I met up with someone, was a hot september, so I was dowsed with deoderant to make sure I didn't smell of sweat, and the lady i met gave me a hug, and with an almost surprise in her voice she said you smell really good.

Never thought about it much at the time as I just took it as a compliment, but did kind of dawn on me afterwards that her perceptions of someone being that big and in that kind of heat was going to smell bad, so she was surprised when I didn't.

And in a way it not that different to someone saying I don't want to meet someone that is above size 10, or I only want someone between height 5'6" & 5'10", super femme, sexy curves, etc etc.

Someone is always going to be offended by something.

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I agree with Angie1981.   Wash yourself!  And chew some gum after smoking & eating if you can't brush your teeth right away.   I am also leery of people who wear too much perfume, seems like a cover up for funk.  I don't think being clean has anything to do with make up or what clothes you are wearing.  As long as you are clean and LIVE CLEAN, then you're on the right track.  I want to smell you, not chemicals. 

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Is this one topic or two? Does smelling bad have to equal bad hygiene? I don't like the smell of cigarette smoke - does that mean smokers have poor personal hygiene habits? Or does it just mean we're not likely to hook up? If the offending odor isn't caused by bad hygiene, then whether or not that person is "smelly" becomes a matter of personal preference - an opinion. We all have our own scent, our own pheromones - it's part of what makes us attracted to (and attractive to) some but not others. There are a million products that we use everyday that are scented in one way or another. Once those products combine, a new scent is created. When that new scent combines with our own chemistry, not only does it become something new it also becomes something entirely unique. Not every combination is going to be appealing to every person.

I used to have a delivery job that frequently took me to a particular apartment building. The hallway always smelled like curry. When I trained my replacement, walking into that building always made him nauseous because of it.  Made me hungry - I love curry.

There is a school of thought that believes after a spring rain everything smells, "fresh and clean". There are about a bazillion products that claim to recreate that smell and apparently people buy them. Lots of people. Not me. I think it smells like dirt after it rains. And worms. Yuk.

So about this hygiene thing - if you put "I can't date a woman without adequate hygiene" in your profile, you have essentially said absolutely nothing. You have left it open to interpretation as to what "adequate" means. On the other hand, if you were to write, "I'm a little compulsive about my personal hygiene - I can't even think about starting my day until I've had a long, hot shower" that would be meaningful. The woman who spends ten minutes, once a month rinsing herself off with a garden hose would read that and think you too much of an obsessive clean freak to bother with. She leaves you alone and you never have to have that uncomfortable conversation where you tell her how nasty you think she is. Win, win.

Or you could just be a completely obnoxious asshat and write a dissertation on exactly what your definition of "adequate hygiene" is, and what types of hoops you will be expecting any prospective partner to jump through in order to be deemed worthy of your attention.

Personally, when I read somebody's profile, I do so hoping to learn a little about them - not a lot about who they want me to be. Who you're looking for is general - who I am is specific. If we appear compatible in general - then maybe we can work on the specifics.

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I am not sure how to respond to this topic. Without going into the medical terminology, I cannot smell. Hygiene is most important to me because if I stink.... well I just don't know it. Strong perfumes give me migraines and my pheromones don't work properly. When I married my 1st husband 19 years ago this month, everyone complained about how much he stunk. I didn't smell him, but I loved him for he was. It offended me when people would tell me he stunk.  Hygiene and makeup, in my opinion do not go into the same category. 

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I like to be clean when I have a woman in my bed, and I like her to be clean also. But really don't like the many bad jokes that speak to a woman's body parts being smelly.

 

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