Hygiene is important. I can't date anyone smelly!

Would be subscriber says, "Hygiene is important. I can't date a woman without adequate hygiene. Or a woman who smells bad."

This one isn't nearly as bad as the anorexia thing (see previous in this section). But really . . . . we're just getting severely tired of reading this. And . . . it's really fairly dysfunctional, socially speaking. And mostly, the women that post this are involved with men, and looking for a "woman on the side." Which brings us to . . .


Let's break it down.

Do YOU think YOU have good hygiene? Do you think YOU bathe often enough to avoid offending others?

Do you think most women you know imagine THEY have good hygiene? Do you think THEY think they bathe often enough to avoid offending others?

OR . . . do you imagine all your female friends might need some sort of wacky reminder from you to continue bathing?

Pretty much, ALL WOMEN EVERYWHERE imagine they have adequate hygiene. Whether or not you would agree, that is what they think. Just like YOU think YOU have adequate hygiene, so do other women.

Other than women who are unfortunately homeless and lack access to water facilities (and those women probably aren't accessing your profile on a computer), ALL WOMEN EVERYWHERE imagine they have adequate hygiene.

If they thought they needed a bath? THEY'D TAKE ONE!! ALREADY! WITHOUT YOUR HELP!

So, what EXACTLY are you actually accomplishing by insisting that a woman you might date have "adequate hygiene?"

You're more or less suggesting to anyone that reads your profile that you already imagine, in advance of meeting her, that she might not have adequate access to water or suggesting that she's so stooooooopid that she might not already know that cleansing herself on a regular basis is a good idea.

And . . . that's your first impression, with another supposedly intelligent woman? That you think she might not know that bathing on a regular basis is a good idea? And . . . you don't think that's insulting?

Let's return to the misogyny thing. What if you were looking for heterosexual men to date? Would you put in your profile that they needed to bathe on a regular basis? Obviously, you'd hope they WOULD . . . but would you find it necessary to actually specify that in your profile?

Or might you rightly imagine they'd feel insulted and think you a TOTAL LOON for even feeling the need to say that? And, they'd rightly avoid you like the plague? We just can't imagine for a moment that a woman that put in her (heterosexual male seeking) profile that bathing was important would be the slightest bit popular. Nor can we imagine she'd even IMAGINE she would be. She'd know better. For MEN, that is, she'd know better.

Do you think gay men put in their personals profiles, "Oh, and hey . . . it would be a good idea if you took a shower regularly. Because I'm thinking maybe a lot of you gay men out there don't know how to do that because you're stooooopid, and . . . I'd like to only meet the gay men that actually DO know how to take a shower regularly. If you're one of those gay men who never EVER shower . . . you're not my first choice."

Um . . . NO.

This is misogynist BULLCRAP. Women saying this to other women is just plain nuts.

Stop it. Please. With sugar. You'll be more popular.

(including with women that do bathe, really)

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I agree that it is misogynist. Some women probably can't help falling into this trap as they've been "seduced" by the mass media into thinking it's a problem. I think the gender gap in hygiene products has been closing over the last decade or so, but there are still many more products marketed to women to help them become "hygienic" than there are to men. If you see all this advertising and you haven't yet developed any sort of critical eye toward this brainwashing, then you might tend to think women are somehow dirtier or smellier than men.

I agree that it is insulting, however. Also socially dysfunctional, at least if you're trying to date anyone clever enough to have already developed that critical eye.

I also agree that it's total bullcrap, and women should think better about other women (especially other women they've not even met yet and have no reason to imagine are smelly) and stop it already.

Don't know what ALL WOMEN are all on about when they say this garbage, but I think for maybe SOME of them it's some sort of defensive "shorthand" or roundabout way of suggesting that THEY have super duper hygiene. And they want any reading their profile to imagine that about them as well.

Otherwise, what else are we to think? That it's been a SEVERE problem for the women in question . . . that they kept on and on dating woman after woman that they found unpleasant to the nose? Such that they found it necessary to put something about hygiene in their profiles?

OK, maybe, but then why did they do that? Makes no sense, really.

I think I'm back to the mass media brainwashing . . .

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First I would like to say that Ramona, I really like the picture of your cat. I still haven't decided what to put up for a picture as I am brand new to this.

I would not, at first glance, have recognized a request for good hygiene as misogynistic until I read the original post from our erstwhile hostesses. However, I am grateful for having my consciousness raised. I also agree with Ramona that part of the problem could be falling sway to patriarchal propaganda in the big advertising machine. My own take is that this is a form of microagression - a seemingly small comment or action that in fact promotes or continues a bias or prejudice against a group.

My only experience making love with a woman (so far) was about 25 years ago and I have never forgotten how beautiful she smelled everywhere. I wonder if someone adding this request to her profile is really projecting her own ambiguity about the process - or maybe she just had a really bad experience at some point...

Anyway, that's just my two cents and I freely admit my oh so very limited experience.

Jeanne aka Buttercup

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I may be branding myself as an outcast here, but I can see both sides to this. I have met women who only bathed about once a week. In parts of California, for instance, there are areas where the cost of water is so high and the stress on conservation so great that people will not bathe every day. They sell antibacterial wipes in abundance but we all know that those are sub-par to a good shower. There are also the people who still enjoy being a part of the grunge movement, where it was stylish to walk around dirty and homeless-looking.

That doesn't change the fact that if a person is going to go out on a date and will have the chance to be close enough to another person that she can be smelled, it would be wise to bathe thoroughly. It is common courtesy and anyone who cannot comprehend that without being instructed to do so isn't necessarily worth the time wasted on making the request.

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I can see that this is a mixed bag, after all it's kind of common sense to bathe regularly, both for your own health and because 90% of the species doesn't like being coated in their own funk. Putting that comment up as a note or requirement seems redundant and they should have known it could be taken as offensive. But, there are people out there who don't bathe often enough. We catch a wiff as we are passing them on the street, or rolling down the aisle in a store. For what ever reason, those people who wake up and go "Day three... shower? .... nah."

I think it is important to state that you have an issue with being clean, it's understandable considering we all know that women can smell bad too, because it can be a deal-breaker. But obviously that's something that will be discused at a later date if you're really worried about it, so you don't need to put it in with a list of requirements.

Edited by Tori_bird

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couldn't date someone with bad hygiene that's one the ultimate turn offs for me. I have slight OCD when it comes to tidying up and things being clean and their is nothing worse than people smelling bad ewww it's just gross.

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I had a different take on this.

Yes, having read tons of men's profiles and dated tons of men, you do actually have to request that someone show up showered and such. But like you said, the ones who show up that way don't realize the message is for them, so it does only make you look bad.

Hygiene can mean teeth, too... and bad breath. And I'm one of those people where if you don't brush your teeth twice a day, I'm not going to kiss you the way you like it. Some people are a little more grossed out than others, and I think that's okay to say up front. if that's a known issue. Because it's about bodies, it makes it more offensive than, I guess, "If you track your wet bootprints on my carpet" because it's just a behavior, but then so is grooming. I can see both sides.

Good discussion!

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I just want to preface my statement by saying that I love to smell good (that means cologne and everything) and I love when women smell good, too. But I think it is very offensive to assume that people do not keep adequate hygene by stating one's assumption in one's profile. Nothing says romance like jugment before trial (or a first date). And for the LGBTQIA community, especially, to judge others so readily (in any matter) is quite similar to the Pilgrims seeking religious freedom in the New World. Yes, they were fleeing religious persecution in England, but then they persecuted non-puritan religions in the colonies. Makes a lot of sense, right? It just seems inconsiderate and hypocritical. So I tend to lean toward the understanding that the idea of "good hygene" is not a cross-cultural norm and should not be subject to judgment or ridicule before further explanation can be delivered.

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Kind of interesting topic - the sense of smell is really important to our wellbeing but not acknowleged in western culture like the other senses. Health smells good, hygiene is not able to disguise illness or habitual abuse of the body for long. Hike a few hundred miles and you can smell the townies coming from a quarter mile away and artificial odors are nauseating. Body odor is a great way to tell if someone is well or not, and I think I read a study about heteros deciding if a potential mate could be compatible, I enjoy the scent of wimmin I love as much or more than the smell of the honeysuckle on the fence out front or the leaves in fall or the salt of the seaside air...

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