lesbotronic

I only want to meet other women that are REAL!

70 posts in this topic

little bit of background info. i am a pre-op mtf in the middle of the florida panhandle. it is a completely rural county. i could make transitioning and my social life a bit easier in a more accepting area, such as nyc or portland or most anywhere else. why do i stay? easy, i cannot live in a city without an extreme toll on my sanity. every place has its pros and cons. no place is perfect, except maybe within my own mind. it is important to know or at least be willing to ask oneself what price is acceptable. this also goes back to what is "real", "drama", or anything else. what is acceptable for each person and what is unacceptable. knowing the answers to these questions makes finding our goal easier.

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My opinion on this matter would be that I would not like to be approached by, say, a male cyber-posing as a lesbian because he can't get any dates and/or has no friends. I could be mistaken, but wait I already said that's my opinion.

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Personally I believe being "REAL" and therefore having "REALNESS" is subjective simply because reality in itself is as a whole subjective. What is a reality for one is a fantasy to another. That being said I don't believe anyone is truly "REAL" unless they are simply authentic and genuine to themselves. 

For example; Alex is a heterosexual female. All well and good. Right? Except she's not a female at all. He is a transman that is still living a lie. So he's not being true to himself or those around him. He's a homosexual male that's living as a heterosexual female. In this case, Alex isn't real. This person is fake because they aren't living authentically.  

This is a seemingly extreme case but it probably happens way more than one night think. Being REAL is more than about simply being honest. I think these people stating that they are looking for someone real mean they want someone AUTHENTIC. Someone that is up front about who they are and what they want in life with out trying to conform to what others think is best.

This is all supposition on my part. I'd be interested to see who thinks similarly.

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Catfishing is really, really common. Men pretend to be women because they get off on lesbian interactions, or they are women who are using fake pictures. I mean, there's an entire show on MTV about this phenomenon. So when I hear someone say they want to date someone who is "real" I take that to mean someone who is actually is who they say they are.

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On 3/27/2010 at 11:50 AM, angelica said:

Mm, I've a few times seen people on message boards mention bad experiences with dating sites (certain ones being named as specifically bad) in terms of lots of profiles being literally fake; usually, a particular kind of man masquerading as female to fulfil xyz creepy desire - ogle specifically lesbian women, try to strike up lesbian sexychat, even lure someone out into public, whatever. I've not generally got the impression that the people in question were making disgusting references to trans women, but people who identify as men who want to prey on queer women in some sense.

... Other than that, yeah, I'm sure transphobia accounts for a number. And perhaps often "real" as a synonym for "genuine"? Which is still pretty nebulous, but I'd have thought usually lies somewhere in the realm of: no bullshit&lies, no hidden agendas, no power games, no pretensions etc. I'd have thought that most people with any significant relationship history to speak of would've come across at least one aspect of all that at some point (more, certainly, than will have knowingly had any romantic experiences with any trans people - and those that have known anyone trans to any significant degree are, I'm fairly sure, less likely to spew that kind of bigotry anyway), which I'd have thought would go some way to explaining its prevalence.

This might not exactly be related to this question, but the first time I ever joined a lesbian website it was more of a board than a forum.  I started talking to this person about general life issues, nothing specific.  Suddenly one day I got an email that was just outright disgusting and I couldn't even read it all.  I turns out it was a man pretending to be a woman and he really despised lesbians.  This site is the first time since then that I have joined a site more specific to lesbians because of that bad experience.    Sorry the first part of the quote in this message reminded me of that bad experience or so it brought it to mind.

--

I think real might just mean realistic and not some pie in the sky fantasy where your life is all in your head and the person can't really relate to regular people. 

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I think people use term "real" as a sort of magical touchstone, thinking if they repeat it often enough, whatever good individual they have in mind when they say it, she'll appear. It's vague enough to make a good shield against all sorts of unknown others, too, when it comes to rejection: X isn't appropriate for me b/c she isn't "keeping it real", etc. This lets them off the hook from having to be specific about who and they want, like other generic buzz words used in profiles. I don't mean to sound harsh here, but the English language is rich. Google is not difficult to use. Yet most profiles of women on sites I've used have been boringly repetitive and said very little beyond "good, kind, and loves animals."  But they did all want someone REAL.  SNORT.  I, robot indeed!

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I find this topic to be quite entertaining. I don't think real in this case should be interpreted as in being a human. It is a given that you will be talking to a human once you join a social site. On many sites there are people who sign up with hidden agendas for example a guy signs up and pretends to be a woman, or some one uses profile pictures that aren't them, people lie about their situations and themselves. it doesn't make them unreal as a human but unreal in character.  I was talking to a lady once and we seemed to be hitting it off pretty well until one day I got a message from her husband who was very upset that I was talking to his wife. She failed to mention that she  was married. So real to me means be open to your true self. Don't pretend to be someone or something you're not.  Do not fail to leave out important information that you know matters.  If you are familiar with the show catfish then I think the word "real" makes more sense. 

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LizzieLou said:

Got 2 B Real?

I think your best answer there is #6: because of its common usage but then ultimately meaningless because of everyone's thinking that they are real. Not in the metaphysical sense like... Wow. I'm real? but in the "I'm just me! I'm so real!" kind of way.

Of course, I can't really say everyone thinks that way. I do not think I am real at all. I am actually ...

1. a pretty big liar most of the time

2. definitely have a hidden agenda

3. completely filled with botox from head to toe, and

4. not popular enough to be real, except in my own mind where I am the most real and the most cool.

I wonder if this comment is REAL?....

 

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For me as a trans woman, I've always took it very literal, so if the woman is a CiS/Genetic woman and is Lesbian, then real to me means they only want a Real Genetic/CiS Lesbian woman, no bi-curious, no trans pre or post op, no straights wanting a first experience, but a real CiS/Genetic woman that has and always will be a Lesbian.

I've never really thought it could mean anything but that, actually been quite interesting reading everyone's interpretations of it over the past few pages.

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Hulabowl said:

I wonder if this comment is REAL?....

 

Whatcha mean Hulabowl? Are you asking if I’m really an unpopular, botoxed, liar with a hidden agenda? (answer: no) Are you asking if I say shit just to amuse myself? (answer: yes)   I posted that a while ago but I think my point was that everybody probably thinks they are ‘real’ and the women who aren’t ‘real’ but are pretending to be wouldn’t care to exclude themselves else why are they pretending in the first place. (And I had read the original post to be asking about a character trait and not about gender identity, but that just shows my own bias I guess.)

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lesbotronic said:

Thanks for your responses, Farandolae and Rural Technophile. 

Yeah, we'd have to do a massive email on that, and compile the responses. We've got some inner research nerd going on too (else, why would we even wonder?) but no, no enough time for that right now. We've done a massive email request for feedback and compiled responses in the past for some previous questions that seemed important, mainly about some of the stuff on the profile questionnaire. Sadly, right NOW, just the general site maintenance and new profile approval has us pretty slammed and exhausted. We were really hoping some of those who insisted on the "realness" might clarify their perspective here. But obviously so far, not so much.

Rural Technophile, very fascinating perspective! A shift within Hollywood and subsequent TV programming in relation to the economy hadn't occurred to us at all. Hmmmm. I guess we HADN'T thought about that sort of thing. ?? But if that's "over thinking," please do keep it up, it's marvelous. :)

We were also wondering if "realness" was something that could be more objectively or specifically defined on the part of those requesting it . . . or if it was more like we've come to view "sense of humor." Meaning, that everyone seems to think they have a "good" sense of humor, such that requesting someone that does in a personals profile is virtually meaningless. The only thing to do is be more specific about what you mean by "good," then look for that, such that the descriptive phrase, "good sense of humor" then becomes fairly useless.

But again, still pretty confused about "realness," since the massive insistence that one must possess it is relatively new for us, profile review-wise.

Thanks again for your feedback!

 

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I think that requesting that ones potential future partner is real, in regards to dating sites, is quite appropriate.  The thing is that, as we are completing our own profile, we are not answering with the rhetoric of our own shortcomings; we are presenting as if we are the absolute best 'us's that we could possibly present while fine-combing out any potential date for any undesirable traits, things like, I am in recovery for alcohol dependancy or I smoke and watch way too much TV because they just aren't pretty factors or maybe even parts if ourselves that we wish did not exist, not because they are bad people but, let's face it, it's not like, growing up, we were given even the most basic guidelines on being real, or genuine. 

I didn't even realize that I had been lying to myself my whole life, until I was 33, because I thought it was my reality.  I  would just sort of adopt whatever my current partner liked as far as music, sports teams etc. I would apply their likes and dislikes as if a fresh layer of paint that could somehow seal the old fake me out and lay primer for the new. It took me a couple years to actually get real and move towards a state where I now know, when I meet a woman, I am offering my True Authentic Self, one that done the treacherous work to undo the damage and heal. I know that I will offer what is true over what looks better in a profile for a dating website because I am real. I think maybe what is being requested in the profile is that their potential partner has done enough work on herself to identify some of these characteristics and knows her triggers.  Hopefully, she will admit when she encounters another who is NOT a good fit, she will simply decline and bullshit as if not fitting the mold for that one date would forever determine her human worth. Because, face it, bullshitting, for any amount of time is a sad distorted waste that will perpetuate the fake and continue to run right over the real.  Let's face it, if this many people are demanding realness, then consider it a prerec for this site.

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Athena88 said:

I didn't even realize that I had been lying to myself my whole life, until I was 33, because I thought it was my reality.  I  would just sort of adopt whatever my current partner liked as far as music, sports teams etc. I would apply their likes and dislikes as if a fresh layer of paint that could somehow seal the old fake me out and lay primer for the new. It took me a couple years to actually get real and move towards a state where I now know, when I meet a woman, I am offering my True Authentic Self, one that done the treacherous work to undo the damage and heal. I know that I will offer what is true over what looks better in a profile for a dating website because I am real.

Would like to start by saying Thank you to Athena for that insight, actually made a few things clear to myself.

I always used to have a bad habit of learning to adapt to other people's requirements for an easy life, to try fit in, more so being an M2F trying to live in a womans world.

I've been on the hormones now for 4 n half months self medicating, quite amazed I even got any effects this quickly but they started and one of the things was/is extremely sensitive nipples.

Normally I'm pretty clued up on most things or know how to go about researching them and cross referencing them til I break it down to what I'm looking for but on this occasion I was really brain dead about it all.

I've made a couple of female friends from my volunteer work who are really supportive of me and encourage me in ways I could never of hoped for, so I was like sis, can I ask you a personal question? (we call each other sis)

She was like of course you can.

So I asked her for advice on best ways to go about numbing the sensitivity of them.

Now my point of the above is, When I was asking her knowing she is married to a guy, because I'm an M2F I'm so used to having to think how is someone going to react? Do they really see me as a female or do they see me as male? if I ask something personal as a woman to woman will they really see it as a woman to woman question or will they think ok here it comes just a man in a skirt trying to get in my knickers?

And it was the first time I actually thought no, they know the real me, they've been out with me, they seen me as a girl, they work with me week in week out, they trust me, just be real with them, no more trying to be a million things to a million people, be one thing to a billion people, but the way Athena put it above actually makes a hell of a lot of sense.

When people put real they simply just looking for someone to be themselves, take the chance of someone saying no I don't like you, or sorry you're not my type, or well you are nice but I only want to be friends, simply be honest about who and what you are and don't try making a mask to impress me kind of thing.

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LesleyRebeccaC said:

 

For me as a trans woman, I've always took it very literal, so if the woman is a CiS/Genetic woman and is Lesbian, then real to me means they only want a Real Genetic/CiS Lesbian woman, no bi-curious, no trans pre or post op, no straights wanting a first experience, but a real CiS/Genetic woman that has and always will be a Lesbian.

 

In reading this thread, I see where the trans women are getting confused, and (not necesarily you) some seem to be getting offended for just this reason, when it is not directed at you. 

It's more about being honest with yourself, and others about who you are, not hiding what someone might think is important. You stating that you are a trans woman, looking for a woman is you being 'real'. In the same way, someone stating that they are curious, and looking to try a new experience, is still being 'real', because they are stating that they have never had the experience, but are interested.

My take on being REAL, is more about the honesty of who you are and what you are looking for. 

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PennyAnnLane said:

In reading this thread, I see where the trans women are getting confused, and (not necesarily you) some seem to be getting offended for just this reason, when it is not directed at you. 

It's more about being honest with yourself, and others about who you are, not hiding what someone might think is important. You stating that you are a trans woman, looking for a woman is you being 'real'. In the same way, someone stating that they are curious, and looking to try a new experience, is still being 'real', because they are stating that they have never had the experience, but are interested.

My take on being REAL, is more about the honesty of who you are and what you are looking for. 

Hi Penny, Everyone else,

This is one of the reasons I love this forum so much, it's one of the few places all genders of women can come and express opinions and discuss things like true adults.

Since I made that post and been reading through many of the posts everyone has made, I do have a very different outlook on what Real means now, and do have to agree with a lot of what you have put.

I think now I'd probably message the person and ask what they mean by real rather than presuming what it means, actually be a good ice breaker to find out and show consideration to that person's thoughts.

Though I do think the definition of real between how women think of it and I mean all women in that respect, and how men see it is total opposite ends of the spectrum, and I think since most trans women are brought up and raised as men unless they transition really early in life, that's the reason we tend to have a totally different concept to it, as men saying real tends to be for sexual purposes rather than all the things listed above on this thread.

Thank you to everyone for your insights on this, been invaluable. xx

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Society is pretty fake in itself so really they're just conforming to their natural habitats...Haha

Catfishing on the other hand is just plain stupid, eventually the truth will come out, and they'll pull back the red curtain to discover some sweaty middle aged bald dude..o.o Honestly though, its the internet its just one of those things you have to come to terms with, you will find fake people no matter where you go unfortunately. 

 

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Wow! Quite the rehash. Sensitive subject?   If a person accepts themselves the way they are,then there is no fake.Unless they are manipulative.And they're easy to spot if you think with you're head ,not you're groin.

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lesbotronic said:

After reading a LOT of profiles that specify this as a requirement . . . we think we really don't know what "REAL" actually means.

Well. We can sort of imagine those specifying this don't wish to be with someone who lies on a regular basis, or ever lies about anything really important.

Like, don't say you're a licensed veterinarian, then when someone asks you about their cat's emergency medical problem say WHOOPS, oh no, I'm not actually a vet at all, I have no idea about your kitty. Uh Oh! Sorry I'm such an ass that I lied!

Or SURE, I didn't have any alcohol today, I'm fine to drive except WHOOPS, now I wrecked the car because I'm a big lying drunkiepants and now I'm going to jail. Nope!

Or, I'm totally single, I'm totally free to date whomever I like except WHOOPS there's my girlfriend/husband/whatever and I gotta go!

Not good either.

But if lying is the bad thing, why not just ask for someone that is honest? The liars might still respond ('cause that's what liars will do), but at least you'd be clear that's what you meant.

Other than the avoidance of big huge lies, what does "REAL" actually mean?

If someone doesn't tell lies, are they "REAL?" Is that enough?

If not, then what else does it mean?

Can someone who is not "REAL" get that way later? What exactly would that entail?

Thinking about whomever you imagine to NOT be "REAL" . . . would they agree with you?

Would anyone that is NOT "REAL" agree that that is so?

Or does every human on the planet imagine themselves to be "REAL?"

Thoughts and clarifications most appreciated, thanks.

Oh goddess, give me strength.

That whole sense of something being 'really' or 'truly' something is problematic, because as Morpheus said in the Matrix "How do you define real?"
I liked how Ruby Rider recently defined that whole concept for a listener to her podcast, when the person's SO said that real bisexuals go either way for sex, like a coin flip: she said that such a concept is really the opinion of the speaker, and is more arbitrary & subjective than objective. Some people think that it is a mechanical operation: binary thinking, to be honest. Binary thinking is for cishet dudebros and toxic masculine types.

I've encountered my share of women-only events and spaces, where the trans community was not welcome, because they weren't "really" women. At one Take Back the Night rally, they basically gave trans folx and male survivors their little corner, but were not included at the main event. So I guess the focus was on the "real" victims and survivors of street harassment and rape? (I'm fine with focusing on cis women, but it seemed like others were being marginalized rather than included. BTW, a year later a trans female friend of mine was chased, beaten, and left for dead in the same city in broad daylight, because she wasn't a "real" woman.)
But I think what you are talking about is as much about honesty with the self as with others. Sure, don't pretend to be a vet when really you just have a basic understanding of animals. Sure, don't pretend to be a maestro when really you just strum or pick & grin, I get it. And that definitely applies to singledom versus committed-relationship-dom versus polyamory.
But some things can be real for you, and that makes them real enough, without need to evaluate.
Are you a gold-star lesbian? Maybe, maybe not. Who cares? Some sneeches have stars upon thars, and some don't. Learn to live with it and love who you are, I say.

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lesbotronic said:

OK, still interested in exploring this, since the profiles expressing concern regarding "REAL" do keep pouring in.

To review, the lovely peeps that have been clever enough to comment thus far have expressed a variety of opinions on what "REAL" actually means, either for those wanting to meet others that are "REAL," declaring oneself "REAL," or both. Those include:

1. people who do not lie, at least not very often, or about anything important

2. NOT males (assigned male at birth, still ID as male currently) masquerading as female in an attempt to fool queer women (similar to number 1, but number 1 might include different sorts of lies)

3. cisgendered women (but we reiterate our distaste for this one on multiple levels, please see previous)

4. NOT an excess of (or any?) strictly cosmetic surgical alteration, including altered noses, botox, and/or homogenized teeth

5. no hidden agendas or undisclosed, non-consensual power games

6. regurgitation of "REAL" because it's popular, without much if any actual, well-thought out meaning behind use of the word

If anyone else would like to share a differen opinion on what "REAL" eans, we're still open to hearing it!

But meanwhile, we're still wondering about some of our original questions, like:

Thinking about whomever you imagine to NOT be "REAL" . . . would they agree with you?

Would anyone that is NOT "REAL" (according the definitions above, or another one (please express that)) agree that that is so?

Or does every human on the planet imagine themselves to be "REAL?"

Any more thoughts appreciated, thanks!

 

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Anyone who is not real would never agree that they are not real because they are not real.  Real meaning accepting oneself within themselves and not being afraid to show others who they REALly are.   No fakiness , no ass suckin , currying favor or pretention.  Just pure unadulterated self.  With all the flaws, hangups and whatever, that we , as a human species ,have.   Only through acceptance can we improve ourselves and move toward being a better person .   Denial gets one nowhere.  Fear drives denial.  To get rid of fears ,put them into the light,. See and accept and they will disapate into nothingness . Be brave. 

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