How Long Until You Meet the "Right" Lesbian(s) for You: A Formula?

[lesbotronic]

(This was inspired by a post from member Geekomatic, but we're not using the regular quoting function right now, as that post is in the Members Only area, right here.  You do have to be a member that is currently signed in to visit that link, else you'll get an error.)

So, as you probably already noticed, profiles here request demographic requirements, as well as some additional freetext about the sort their authors are hoping to meet.  And we review profiles before accepting them, in our best effort to keep out the scammers, spammers, and trolls.

And during that process, we can't help but form a very casual or cursory impression of how likely it is that we'll be able to hook them up with just their sort of requested person(s) within the near/ish future.  This is an oversimplification, but we more or less imagine one of three things:

 

"No problem!  We have many who fit that description in our database right now, and probably more on their way shortly!"

or

"Maybe kinda tricky, but probably, especially if you're willing to remain engaged until you find them."

or

"You're basically waiting to win the lottery."

 

And even though we do already have advice related to this in our advice section, link to the beginning still in the bottom menu, but right here more specifically (and even more specifically under the subject headers "Prioritize!," "Keep an open mind!," and "Be realistic!") . . .

. . . we've often wondered if there could be an even more specific and possibly interactive way to operationalize this.  Maybe even something we could put on the site and make available for everyone to use, so at least some won't take it personally when we refer them to it in response to a question?

Kind of like those online financial calculators where you can figure how long it will take you to pay off a mortgage?  You plug in your deposit, interest rate, monthly payments, any additional payments on the principal, and the date you're starting, then it crunches the numbers and spits out a end date.  

(Yes, those numbers are more certain than anything involving dating, so we're being somewhat facetious here, but not entirely.)

So relevant factors for this formula would have to include:

 

• if certain physical characteristics are required (hair, eyes, height, weight, etc.)
• whether you ID as butch or femme, if you want to meet only butches or only femmes, how strongly you feel about that
• the rest of your demographic requirements and/or search result restrictions (age, ethnicity, whatever)
• personality/lifestyle requirements (intellectual interests, psychoactive substance use, hobbies, pets, introvert/extrovert, if overnight camping is absolutely required, etc.)
• children, if you already are a parent and/or want to become one
• career/income/educational/other life accomplishment requirements
• where you live, and more specifically how many lesbians of any variety live anywhere near you*

(*This last location one is really the most difficult, as we're not aware of any reliable way to estimate that.  Is anyone else?  We also imagine many with extensive or unusual requirements are actually overestimating, making it even tougher.)

 

For the formula, you'd have to enter your location, and then you'd be presented with roughly how many lesbians there are within some reasonable radius, let's say 100 miles.  (Or maybe farther, for the more adventurous.  Just some distance you could traverse within a day or so without any expensive plane tickets.)  And then your time frame would be maybe . . . within a few months, if you plan to seriously apply yourself and have enough free time available to do so regularly within that time frame.

But then you'd be presented with a matrix of various characteristics in the categories above, and you'd start checking off what you feel is absolutely necessary for a lesbian to be "right" for you for whatever sort of relationship(s) you want.  With each check, some percentage of the lesbians would disappear, and the predicted time frame would increase.

At some point, after the percentage dips well into the single digits and the number of lesbians left is near zero, the matrix would pixelate and fade away, then the face of a concerned counselor or sympathetic Auntie-type would replace it onscreen.  

She'd say, "Honey, sometimes excessive pickiness is really rationalized avoidance.  Besides, wouldn't it be exciting to go on another date sometime between now and the year 2036?"

"Just a date, sugar.  You don't have to marry her if you don't want to!  Not at all.  No.  Just have a beverage and a brief conversation."

"Then you can run just as fast as you can right back home!"

. . . 

OK, that might be more than just a formula.

(But it'd still have to start WITH some sort of formula.)

. . . 

Based on some previous conversations, we already know some will read this and think, "But SO WHAT if I AM waiting to win the lottery?  Who the hell are you people anyhow to suggest I should be less specific?  If this exceedingly specific person is who **I** need to be happy, then that's that, that's who I need, end of discussion!"

We're actually not trying to tell anyone what they should absolutely do with regard to these issues, who to befriend and/or date, and/or how specific they should/not be.

Our sense that a formula might be helpful for some that seem "stuck" revolves around those who fill out their profiles such that they have extremely specific demographic requirements  . . . then on top of that also indicate numerous other requirements in their freetext areas  . . . then shortly after all that, email or message us to announce their surprise (often seemingly coupled with anger or annoyance) that we apparently don't have many if any women who do meet all those requirements immediately available!

And then we look at their profile and think, "But HOW can you be surprised?  Given that extensive list, we're not the slightest bit astonished you haven't found her yet.  Not just on this site, but really . . . anywhere at all anyplace near you?"

But then, instead of having to say THAT yet again, we'd just point to the formula.  Your formula, your location and requirements you plugged in yourself, your choice.

. . . 

Most of us running lesbotronic are old enough to remember when lesbian bars were where a whole lot of lesbians went to meet other lesbians . . . but then the internet happened when we were still quite young, and meeting other lesbians that way is much more common now.

And while the internet obviously presents many lesbians with more possibility to meet many other lesbians they probably would not have otherwise . . . and that's awesome and fabulous . . . we're beginning to think that for some, it has also created a sense of . . . not just MORE possibility, but near infinite possibility and near infinite availability and near infinite choice.

And for them, in a seemingly counterintuitive way, this sense of infinite possibility is actually stifling their ability to form new relationships.

Not all lesbians, certainly not.  In our experience, not even most lesbians.  But some?

For some, we're sensing a sort of, "Why bother getting to know her better if she's not totally perfect when totally perfect is probably waiting for me right around the corner?"

So, since we were quite young when we spent much time in any lesbian bar and were never looking to "settle down" with anyone we met there (just have the best time possible any which way, as many in their early twenties tend to do), we can't speak to what it would have been like HAD lesbian bars been our primary or only avenue for finding lesbians for actual relationships.

But we imagine that back in the day, lesbians looking for other lesbians mostly just went to their local lesbian bar(s), had conversations with all the women there over the course of a few months or so, and then just picked whoever seemed the most compatible and gave 'em a go.  If it worked out, great, if it didn't . . . back to the bar(s)?

And no, that doesn't sound like utopia.  An alcohol-centric social scene isn't the best environment for everyone.

But the upside was probably that their expectations were likely to be PRECISELY realistic.  All they had to do was look around a few bars, then they'd understand their local lesbian situation.

They probably didn't waste much time holding out for any yet-to-be-spotted fantasy babes either.

(Because if she did actually exist and was actually a lesbian who was actually available, she was likely already in the same bar(s) you were.)

No formula needed.

. . . 

Anyone have any clever ideas?  I know it sounds like we're just having fun with some of this, and we are a bit here and there, but we're also serious too.  We don't know if a formula is realistically possible, but we're open to ideas.

And/or in the meantime, perhaps this discussion will be seen by some in need of a formula and help them imagine something like that for themselves?  We mean that in the most positive and constructive way possible.  :)

[LizzieLou]

OMG, I have no clever ideas yet for the formula yet, but I really like this post and I am going to ponder this. (Also, I think it is obvious that "lesbotronic" is a nerd, or maybe even a math geek, and I love that.) Secondly, you wrote, "And for them, in a seemingly counterintuitive way, this sense of infinite possibility is actually stifling their ability to form new relationships." and I found this to be kind of a profound statement. I was one of those lesbians at the lesbian bar (or the gay bar that had the one lesbian 'tea dance' once a month) as you say "back in the day" -- also, we sometimes found each other through (gasp!) the NEWSPAPER PERSONAL ADS -- and you did know who was there, who was out, who was available. A finite population (or "sample" as you might say, Nerd). There was reality instead of infinite possibility. And there was risk instead of anonymity. 

For the formula, maybe you can give a weighted factor to urban v. not, and have some other dichotomous variables for your algorithm -- which you'd have to determine -- like "has specific requirement for height: Yes/No" and "has specific requirement for TV is the tool of the devil: Yes/No". 

Oh wait, that's what you are proposing already, right? And you want to know WHICH variables? Hmmmm. Ok, then. Still pondering. 

[Ren85]

Hmmm.

I could definitely be wrong, but this seems like an incredibly long way of saying you're trying to figure out how to help the most picky/unrealistic women who register for this site...to which I honestly think/say "don't even worry about it." Like, I get it, you want to help. Some people, though, I don't think can be helped, and it's not worth jumping through all the hoops for them trying to when they really won't help themselves and generally seem to be the types who won't/don't listen when others try to advise/help them. They stick to their guns, and the truth is there is almost always a very small number of people who meet their standards *anywhere*, not just here (or, let me just say it--if a small number of people meet their standards anywhere, probably zero women meet their standards here).

I'm trying to think of how best to say this...I mean, this is why I, personally, have 95% given up on dating or the idea of being in another relationship (for me, finding this site was like, "ooh, great, lesbian forums with some interesting topics," not like "find me my soul mate"). I tend to think of this picky/unrealistic idea in terms of women, not just lesbians, and it's something I constantly see men discussing and feeling like giving up, as well. Sadly, I think this is a lot of women, both lesbian and straight, *and* an increasing number of women, and I identify a lot with men on this issue...I don't know if anyone else has seen what I'm talking about or feels the same way, but men are out there going overboard in expressing frustrations with women (like offensive, sexist, you know the drill)...but within their frustrations are *many* of mine, as well. I do think some of it is thanks to online dating and the "infinite possibility" it brings, because people sure do seem to be a hell of a lot pickier online (which is one reason I would not be emailing you surprised that I can't find anyone here).

As best I remember the registration process for this site, I already think Lesbotronic is "doing too much." There's just tons of questions, and I was certainly forced to get more specific than I would have wanted to even if I were looking for someone. If you really are interested in some type of formula, though, I remember Match.com had some compatibility thing that seemed to do something like what Lesbotronic is suggesting, though maybe not to the same degree. I don't know if they still do it, but you might want to sign up for free and take a look or contact them and see if there's someone there to talk to about it if you really want to try to help the picky people. As best I remember, they would give you a profile with the person's compatibility percentage based on certain criteria you two have in common like age range you both specified, miles you both specified, ethnicity/race you're looking for, religion, education, etc.

Also, being a bit of a computer programmer, I'd say you might also want to talk to someone who is better at programming than I am, because, to me, that's what you're talking about if you want to implement a "formula" on this site for matching up women. I'd say find some web developers and pick their brains because they would have an idea of how to do this. I think talking to someone at Match.com likely would lead to an email with a developer, if anything.

**Hope this did not offend anyone**

[Geekomatic]

It feels like what's happening here is the downside of the black & white nature of "profiles"-- especially where it comes to the "tick a box" parts. Even in the write-your-own areas, a woman still may not be the best at expressing herself in print. That would mean that a whole lot of profiles aren't exactly correct which equals a lot of, "I am this +-" & "I need/want this +-". I also question whether certain deal-breakers would remain so if all other supposed needs are met?

Then, you're also asking everyone to be good at self-evaluating-- and THAT is definitely not always going to produce the best/most truthful outcome. As I referenced in a post somewhere, how many people do you know who would ID as "easy-going" whom you would personally ID as, "OCD"?  Lol.

So with profiles, you're hoping a person can both self-evaluate, be good at expressing themselves in print, AND are truly & absolutely in-tune with who they are & what they need in a prospective partner. As they used to say in the day, "heavy, man".

I wish I had something more of substance to add to help with your algorithm but if you all (with much more experience in this than I) are stuck, what chance do I have? I posit that due to all of the above, what we get here (& at any sort of "match-up" site) will likely always be a bit "hit or miss". Imho.

[Anyaloc]

It’s going to be hard wherever you go.  I personally think that it’s a matter if you click - whether it be online or in person.  I have my FB page say that I am in a relationship but she is my best friend and she isn’t looking for a relationship.  She is also 13 years older than I am and I AM looking for a relationship.  That makes it hard bc it looks like I am fake or lying but I have never had a best friend like this one and I would do anything for her.  

I’ve tried the bar/club scene but I just feel like I’m too old for clubs but too young to just give up and don’t know where to turn.  I don’t want to do the match.com thing bc I’ve been there, done that and when I bring them to my home, they see my best friend.  They get nervous even after I let them know she is definitely straight and does not want to be thought of as gay.  Then why do the FB thing?

Its bc we were both in abusive relationships and needed to get completely away and keep those ppl away.  Our children know the truth and that is what matters to us.  Now, after 10 years, I want to change the status and she is afraid of what others would think bc we both have MS and plan on being there for one another forever.  That doesn’t mean that I wouldn’t like to find a woman to spend time with romantically.

I have no idea where I was going with all of that so I would leave t there.  Btw, I am in Syracuse - Nedrow, a small town 1 mile south of Syracuse, NY.

[Geekomatic]

Anyaloc said:

It’s going to be hard wherever you go. I have no idea where I was going with all of that so I would leave t there.  Btw, I am in Syracuse - Nedrow, a small town 1 mile south of Syracuse, NY.

Did you know that "Nedrow" is the founder's name Worden, spelled backwords? Learn something new, every day!

I used to live near Lake Placid for many years. Syracuse is a wind-driven-freezer in winter-- so happy to not be in that spot of the world now (much prefer the beach).

I was going to add that many sites designed to find a "safe place" for women to meet aren't necessarily designated as "dating" sites. I've joined and given up on many simply because the majority are ONLY looking for a partner (a.s.a.p.) rather than friends (or even, friends-first) and aren't really interested in delving deep-- mainly contacting you to find out where to drop the U-Haul- lol.

I know this, first-hand, because I've tried in the past to make it crystal-clear that while I'm not against a possible relationship, I'm more interested in finding some good friends. If that becomes more, it's okay, but don't contact me for that eventuality as it's not my reason for being there.

What did I get? Women contacting as "friends-only" and we meet up for coffee or such & I can IMMEDIATELY tell I'm being sized-up as partner material. I know that sounds like I'm bragging or reading too much into it, but it's true. These women, in a very short time, approach me as a love-interest. I find out during that short time that they've had many partners for, likewise, short periods of time. I've never been able to understand how anyone moves in with another person so quickly.

Anywho-- that's all from me, for now.  Wishing everyone a peaceful day/night, from Western AU.  ;)

[Anyaloc]

I understand completely.  My best friend and I were best friends for 9 months before things became physical.  I, like yourself want a friendship - really getting to know someone - before even thinking about a physical relationship.  I don’t believe in one night stands or mini-relationships.  That’s not what I’m about and I’m sorry if I gave off that impression.

 I’m basically an introvert and it takes time to get to know someone and sometimes that doesn’t work for some women but that’s who I am.  I actually have my best friend meet the person bc my “good/real person” radar is not the best.  If you don’t pass her test, it’s not going to work for me.

I appreciate your response and btw, you are correct about the awful winters and I wish I could move further south but not too far bc I am heat intolerant.

[Dani28]

i guess you could make a Currently Looking (or something to that effect) topic and members who are actively seeking partners could post a clear and concise list of their must-haves and deal-breakers, and also peruse the posts of other active members who are also currently looking for love. i say partners/love, because people who are only seeking casual encounters tend not to be so picky that they would have trouble finding the right one night stand or fling or what have you. That said, i think things happen exactly when and how they are meant to though not if you don't make an effort. i've said this before but i keep coming back here because i met my wife of nearly a decade on this site. In the seven years since losing her to a long illness, i have lowered my standards, reinstated my standards, dated women i would not have considered before, held out for the right one, considered that maybe there is only a right one and i lost mine... i don't know that there is really a formula that can bring the right people together. i think it's fate. But i admire your continued efforts.