3. queer = heterosexual now, for real

[lesbotronic]

So for background plus contrast, if you're not a sexist out on the far left wing, the word "lesbian" likely still has non-postmodern reality left for you too, not in need of as much "reclaiming."

Many say we should once again reclaim "queer" from the heterosexuals, but we doubt that's worthwhile.

First, good luck with that, because they're passionately attached.  Like a dog with a bone.

Second, anyone old enough should recall that "queer" never meant anything specific or generalizable, even though it kinda meant the L or the G or the B in LGBTQIA+?  

But clearly vibing not everybody, nope!

Just the COOL ones, COOL being "COOL like me."

And definitions of COOL varied widely, not just different people, but same people over time?  Probably even wider.

But after a few years where most were using that definition, heterosexuals decided anything that COOL wasn't allowed to leave them out, nope no way, so most heterosexuals are "queer" now too.  

If an XX enthusiastically announces she's queer, odds are today, she's happily married to an XY.

 

 . . .

The Center for the Study of Partisanship and Ideology reports that lately, most folks with an L or an LGB or even an LGBTQIA+ identification only engage in "exclusively heterosexual behavior."

"However, it posits a vital distinction between LGB identity and behavior. The youthful surge is mainly about LGB identity, with considerably less change in sexual behavior."

Maybe feeling any call to pretend you're anything at all or identify as you're not is stressful?

Once upon a time / until about five years ago, that was practically LGB religion!  That having to pretend you're something you're not or engage in sexual behavior that wasn't either would be emotionally stressful, in the extreme!

You've heard of the It Gets Better Project?    

Do we need one now for heterosexual women too?

Up until about 5 years ago, everyone meant THE OTHER WAY.  Because of homophobia, but the old-fashioned (6 years ago) kind associated with sexual behavior.

"Very liberal ideology is associated with identifying as LGBT among those with heterosexual behavior, especially women.  It seems that an underlying psychological disposition is inclining people with heterosexual behavior to identify both as LGBT and very liberal."

"Very liberal ideology and LGBT identification are associated with anxiety and depression in young people."

Much of the rise in LGBT identification has occurred among those in the most liberal fifth of the political spectrum. While there appears to be some rise in LGBT sexual behavior, at least two-thirds of the increase in LGBT identity is among those whose sexual behavior is heterosexual."

 

. . .

 

Progressivism, Sexuality, and Mental Illness:  "A granular look at survey data on same-sex behaviour and LGBT identity shows that identification is increasingly diverging from behaviour. More importantly, those who adopt an LGBT identity but display conventionally heterosexual behaviour are a growing and distinct group, who lean strongly to the left politically and experience considerably greater mental health problems than the rest of the population.

"By contrast, those who engage in same-sex behaviour are more politically moderate and psychologically stable. These facts sit awkwardly with the progressive view that the rise in LGBT identity, like left-handedness, is explained by people increasingly feeling that they can come out of the closet because society is more liberal . . . "

" . . . Furthermore, the [General Social Survey] data show that bisexual women are the fastest-growing category, accounting for a disproportionate share of the post-2010 rise. ... Most young female bisexuals today are arguably LGBT in name only . . . "

" . . . Turning to mental health, I find the same pattern—women exhibiting same-sex behaviour are far less different from the average than women who have conventional sexual behaviour but identify as LGBT. Expanding the data to include women of all ages so as to maximize sample size, the pattern in figure 6 is clear: women who engage in same-sex behaviour differ very little from the general female population on three mental health indicators.

"However, women who identify-without-behaving LGBT score significantly higher on anxiety/depression, unhappiness, and number of days of poor mental health during the past month. If intolerance is the reason for poor LGBT mental health, it is difficult to understand how those who are not same-sex partnered, and thus less likely to present as LGBT, should report worse emotional problems than those who are same-sex partnered.  Here it is worth adding that women who had no sex partners did not suffer worse mental health than those who did, so the effect has nothing to do with people not having sex.

"The progressive account—that LGBT identification is like left-handedness, that persecution explains mental illness, and that rising toleration leads to more people coming out—cannot account for the patterns in my data. A more parsimonious explanation is that left-liberal culture, especially among young people, inclines people to identify as both LGBT and as having a mental health problem."

[keltheimpossible]

Interesting. I'm an OAP now but am ace and aro. Discovering these provided much relief, in that I understood a bit better why I sucked at romantic relationships. (I am apparently REALLY good at friendships, though.) I have used queer as a self-designation since as a matter of convenience. Otherwise, I'd be doing even more of a mini-gender/romantic orientation workshop upon being asked than I already currently have to present. Except among Gen-Zers. They have no problems with this. How do YOU handle the nonbinary types who have different  sexual and/or romantic attachments? Since I haven't been kicked off yet, maybe okay?

 

 

 

 

/ 

[lesbotronic]

keltheimpossible said:

Interesting. I'm an OAP now but am ace and aro. [snip] Since I haven't been kicked off yet, maybe okay?

 

Hey.  :)  You do seem like you'd be good at friendships, yup.  

Meanwhile, lesbotronic was inspired by lesbian bars, but wanted to be online, obviously.  I don't see an adjective in your post that wouldn't describe at least several folks I did meet IRL in lesbian bars?  Probably never the majority, but that's never required.

More than a few have also signed up for this website too.  

So even though all of that's true, even if it weren't, we've never been motivated to kick anyone off for anything we viewed as less than a real problem, and that's never been you?  You're an awesome member.  :)

This whole section was motivated by really aggressive category FOUR people, for real.

[Geekomatic]

When I was a youngster, queer was a defo slur, as was les, dyke, fag, etc. Later, it became a middle-of-the-road term for not mainstream (more ambiguous than bi, even). I don't see a problem in reappropriating the term, "queer" if it means something to people.

I think a lot of younger people just like to associate with whatever is "in", and now it's apparently cool to state you are "bi/queer/nonB/pan", etc....whether or not you actually are in practice (or ever have legit imagined yourself in these relationships) doesn't seem to matter.  Claiming you are is entirely different from factually, you are. I like to lay the blame on "reality TV" and the culture of being famous for being clingy, self-absorbed, & cringy as they try to shock (repulse) the public as only the very cool think they can. Think Madonna et-al and her cringy pashes. I could be wrong (I often am).  ;)

"In 2008–10, just 13 percent of female bisexuals said they only had male partners during the past five years. By 2018 this was up to 53 percent, rising to 57 percent in 2021. Most young female bisexuals today are arguably LGBT in name only."

I think it's kind of interesting that women ID'ing as bi seems to correlate with the "MeToo" movement. Are they thinking/hoping wishfully to exit the male violence aspect by getting together with women instead?
 

[keltheimpossible]

@Geekomatic

Idk about the cool factor. Where I reside, a small rural mountain town, making your identity public if you are NOT cis, white, straight, Xian is kinda brave. Considering you can be fired from your job, thrown out of your family/housing/church, subjected to harassment and vilification (IRL, not just online), and even face violence. So even if the kids are just trying this on for size, I still say sure, do so. Gender and orientation can be fluid, so experiment away. But perhaps I'm missing your point? Apologies, if so. 

Though my particular state is not QUITE as rabid as those surrounding us, my particular part is working on catching up assiduously. I have friends who do drag, some of whom are members of the LGBTQ+ community and others who are straight. (You ever tried explaining to a cis conservative that straight people can and do do drag? The look on their faces...priceless.)  They're scared. We all are. But defiant also. 

 

[Geekomatic]

Hey Kel,

It's a given that where we reside will colour our perceptions. When I say "cool" I'm talking those areas which are oriented to be accepting & not such a threat. There will always be pockets of hatred (& I think hatred of the unknown, non-threatening is a mental illness). AU has, like the USA, gone a bit backwards since "conservatives" took our gov't hostage (I'll call it) the past 8 yrs. This go round, they have been ousted. We're now in a gov't of progressives, but the way AU gov't works it means a whole lot of compromise meaning the new gov't makes allowances/nods to keep things civil.

Funny you mention the drag bit. So ridiculous. Here's something you'll appreciate (or gag over):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_rmNJk4KEs

[keltheimpossible]

I watched and both laughed AND gagged. OF course, Giuliani in any form is capable of triggering my gag reflex. 

I agree on the location/perception connection. I've found a couple of ways to TRY to have a semblance of safety here, but still the U.S. is just plain scary right now. I mean, even more so than usual. Were I younger, I would consider emigrating. But as the world seems to heading into all sorts of disarray, the question would remain: WHERE?

So I hang out in with other artists (many of whom are in the LGBTQ+ sector). Oddly, weirdly, the 3 churches that are my neighbors are all publicly PRO-LGBTQ+, work to promote racial equality, etc. For now, anyway. Our public library system still holding firm as a bastion of free speech and the freedom to read. We still do regular displays of banned books. But venture away from the town proper or even the small downtown area and you're back in the scary parts. I got verbally attacked in a laundromat once. I had no idea that "washing clothes while gay" can so threaten someone. 

Wow. Wandered off-topic here. Admin might decide "nope". Sorry. 

Thar being said, I and other non-conformists as far as gender goes, are still refusing to go away. I'm not going to grow my hair out, change my clothing,  stop telling folks to use correct pronouns, and esp. not going to adjust my defiant attitude. Like I've seen said in other places, when you've got few things to lose, THAT'S when you become dangerous! I'm aged, in ill health, and have no family. So I've no compunction in taking on locals who act badly. Thus far, I do still have a fairly sharp mind and an ability to skewer.  And I use these!